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View Poll Results: Do You Believe There Is A Link Between Autism And Vaccines?
Yes 15 36.59%
No 22 53.66%
Unsure 4 9.76%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-02-2010, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,475 posts, read 13,886,490 times
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I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say that Jenny McCarthy's hotness made this possible. Now think, if Obama or McCain was as hot as Jenny, what just might be possible. Actually, let's just think of Jenny.

I never believed it.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:52 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,381,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Not true. Tha Gates Foundation has already spent millions of dollars in sub-Saharan Africa on vaccines. They have spent $82 million on Tuberculosis research, and that included resistant strains, and guaranteeing the pediatric population was fully immunized against childhood illnesses. I know there are many similar programs, but that happens to be the one I'm most familiar with. Their Foundation website is fascinating.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Yes, I am fully aware of the works of the Gates Foundation since its inception and that its primary mission is worldwide child immunization.

However, how is my post untrue as to the timing of their most recent announcement re $1.5 billion and the recinding of this study?
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Yes, I am fully aware of the works of the Gates Foundation since its inception and that its primary mission is worldwide child immunization.

However, how is my post untrue as to the timing of their most recent announcement re $1.5 billion and the recinding of this study?
The wording of your post insinuated that their funding of childhood vaccines was a new and suspicious endeavour in light of the Lancet retraction. Sorry if I misunderstood.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,918 posts, read 6,256,725 times
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Quote:
Zimbochick :
I'm reposting this from the other thread.

"He was a paid attention seeker. His initial study involved 12 children, yes just 12. And there are people that still support the results of his initial study. He was developing his own measles vaccine which would compete directly with the MMR, gee, no conflict of interest there. Subsequently there have been several studies to investigate the link, the largest being of 537,303 children born in Denmark, and no link has been found. I'm not sure exactly what it's going to take to prove to the brainwashed people that this scare was started by junk science."

http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ne-debate.html
and

Quote:
From that same thread:
JustGinger: The CDC has stated that multi-vaccinated children are 27 times more likely to develop autism than non multi-vaccinated.
It's interesting that it's mostly younger people who are against vaccines – yet, they are the ones who benefited from having them and the longer life spans.

Logically, of course, compared to my generation when there were no vaccines except polio and when the smallpox vaccine came out, there are going to be "more" just because they are using numbers compared to those of us (probably) who were not vaccinated. Yet….many died…so they are not even in those stats. If you die from the disease you're not counted – you're dead. Anyone who has taken statistics knows that the beauty of statistics is that they can be manipulated -- that's why they are often used!

Quote:
MiamiRob: Does anybody remember when we used to call kids who were devopmentally slow retarded? Now we call them autistic and as a uncle of a nephew who has been diagnosed we know better now!
I had all my vaccines but I don't believe they are a cause for Autism!
Exactly. I remember that! In fact, I remember when they had actual hospitals and homes for those kids/adults. I have a friend who is in his 60s and I'm sure he has Asperger's – he has all the attributes of it. (Of course, he never had vaccines...) He has struggled to keep a job, and his social interaction skills are pretty nil, and he seems clueless about emotional responses from others. However, he is smart. Many of us who know him agree that he probably has Asperger's, except in those days they did not diagnose it as such – the kids were "just different." Or some were actually retarded.

All I know is that many people often died from these diseases – that is precisely why vaccinations were developed! Geez, you'd think this was some weird government policy to kill off its citizens. It was to save lives.

Yes, I am sure every parent who has a child with a syndrome would love to be able to point to an actual proven cause – however, vaccines are not a proven cause. As for the other post which referred to the Hep B vaccine as potentially deadly – well, let me tell you, as someone who almost died from that disease, I was jubilant when it came out. I also had a doctor boss who died from it, contracting it from a patient. (No, I never did drugs….)

All I can say is that I am glad vaccines are around.

I can also tell you for a fact that many, many psychiatrists (especially) are diagnosing kids with ADHD (and other disorders) that, in the past, might have been considered an "overly-active" child that did just fine with tons of exercise! I know that happened in our family. When one of my family members was considered at-risk for delinquency because of "too much energy" and always getting into trouble – it was funneled into sports, thus, creating a world champion! All that intense practice took that energy level down and harnessed it.

I have had to take kids (in my job) to psychiatrists and have been appalled that they don't even talk to the kids, don't find out anything about them, and then prescribe meds like they're candy. In my practice, I was considered a "miracle worker" with ADHD kids – why? Because I engaged them in numerous physical activities. Before therapy, they were jumping on pacer mats over 100 times, until I could see they were getting tired….THEN we started on our work together -- they were more focused, relaxed and progressed. Other professionals who were younger were stunned – the reality was, most of the kids sat in front of televisions, didn't play outside, had normal high energy, and suddenly were medicated because the parents "couldn't take it anymore." Unfortunately, I have seen too many parents think that their kids need to be medicated to be "calmer," when it is a child's natural response to have a lot of energy! Now we have to have designer childhoods – perfect, well-behaved, calm, polite children – kids are kids!

I realize my post may make some people angry, but that's okay. One advantage of having grown up during times when there weren't vaccines and when there are, and seeing how as MiamiRob says, there were lots of other things going on, is that you get two perspectives. Like MiamiRob, I, too, have noticed the very same things – younger folks won't have the opportunity, and so because of that lack of experience and knowledge, they can't easily compare. The reality is that in our day many people had many problems, and many of the same problems. Eliminated are all the awful diseases that used to maim and kill people.

I am sure that Asperger's was around for decades/centuries. It is something that only recently was given a diagnosis and a name. It is normal for parents to want to find a cause and effect, because the mind is continually searching for the reason – I understand that because I'm a parent, too. We want answers. But the mass hysteria over vaccines can undermine a society.

Sometimes it pays to listen to the elders. In other societies, elders were revered for their wisdom and experience – in the U.S., in particular, the elders are tossed aside and thought to be speaking nonsense. I could get into a whole other issue (which I won't – lucky you!), and start on about the educational process that seems to have eliminated analytical and logical thinking….but that's a whole other story....
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Reading, PA
4,059 posts, read 3,904,733 times
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The MMR vaccine, which this study is about, never contained Thimerosal, the mercury compound used as a preservative and believed by some to be related to bioneurological disorders. Virtually all other pediatric vaccines produced for American consumption contained Thimerosal until 2001 (for some, 2003). Those vaccines were used until the supplies ran out which went well into 2005 for many of them. Most other developed nations had banned Thimerosal years earlier. It is Thimerosal containing vaccines -- sometimes given to children as many as 8 in a doctor visit -- that is usually blamed by some in the US for the increase in the various bioneurological disorders. It is still in most pediatric flu vaccines but in much smaller amounts than before. Any multi stick vial has a preservative -- generally Thimerosal -- in it.
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Moving around west virginia looking for home
536 posts, read 324,055 times
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Yes! Absolutely! I believe it so much I refuse to give any more "vaccines" to my daughter and my son has never had one in his short life and has never had anything more than a common cold! My daughter had her vaccines up until she was 1.5 and was sick constantly with ear aches and other problems. You tell me....Not only did the Nurses at the hospital agree with me about not giving him any when he was born they told me they wished they had done the same thing with their kids.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueIsraelite View Post
Yes! Absolutely! I believe it so much I refuse to give any more "vaccines" to my daughter and my son has never had one in his short life and has never had anything more than a common cold! My daughter had her vaccines up until she was 1.5 and was sick constantly with ear aches and other problems. You tell me....Not only did the Nurses at the hospital agree with me about not giving him any when he was born they told me they wished they had done the same thing with their kids.
Well, and that's your choice not to immunize your children. As long as you read all the real scientific research, and came to an educated decision, and are prepared to deal with the guilt should your children protract one of the many childhood illnesses covered by the vaccines which statistically speaking is far more likely than developing autism. And although there apparently are a few, I have never met a real live pediatric nurse who opposes childhood vaccines in my 20+ years in the field.
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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Quote:
Zimbochick
Well, and that's your choice not to immunize your children. As long as you read all the real scientific research, and came to an educated decision, and are prepared to deal with the guilt should your children protract one of the many childhood illnesses covered by the vaccines which statistically speaking is far more likely than developing autism. And although there apparently are a few, I have never met a real live pediatric nurse who opposes childhood vaccines in my 20+ years in the field.
Thank you, Zimbochick. It's hysteria and lack of information. I agree -- all the nurses I know -- and I know plenty -- are not against vaccines, but are actually for them. In our facility, with lots of kids, the nurses were adamant about being sure when the H1N1 vaccine came out that they got the vaccine first (the kids), and those of us over 25 had to wait until it was abundant enough for the non-risk groups. The nurses were also one of the first to get the vaccines, themselves.

Perhaps these nurses who are supposedly against the vaccines are not in regular facilities, but in some alternative facility -- who knows -- and maybe they are nursing assistants, not nurses? I've noticed that people tend to rewrite the truth (unfortunately, through knowing some of the people on the boards, personally, and their "real" life and "board" life are quite different). So, take it with a grain of salt.

My guess is that with holistic health being so widely skewed now (I know, I worked in the field in the past -- now I combine things -- vaccines are a valuable addition to allopathic medicine -- ironically, working on the homeopathic premise of "like cures like," thus -- as much as people don't want to believe it, the allopathic vaccines are in a similar category as homeopathy -- interesting, I think). Things have gone so far off to one end now, that common sense has gone out the window. And the group hysteria hasn't helped.

Obviously, people have a choice -- just hope those little kids don't become adults and contract those "childhood" diseases, which in adulthood are much more dangerous. Again, it's a choice. As these diseases return, so will opinions change....
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,344 posts, read 11,303,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
My guess is that with holistic health being so widely skewed now (I know, I worked in the field in the past -- now I combine things -- vaccines are a valuable addition to allopathic medicine -- ironically, working on the homeopathic premise of "like cures like," thus -- as much as people don't want to believe it, the allopathic vaccines are in a similar category as homeopathy -- interesting, I think). Things have gone so far off to one end now, that common sense has gone out the window. And the group hysteria hasn't helped.
I was with you until you got to this point.

Homeopathy is a well documented fraud, with no theoretical basis to support it, much less any well-conducted, peer-reviewed studies in its favor.

Vaccines do not work on the principle of "like cures like", they work by stimulating the immune system to create antibodies to the bacterium or virus that causes the infection. There is no similarity to the two principles. Furthermore, you undoubtedly know that, by application of Avogadro's Number and the ridiculous dilutions that homeopathic preparations contain, ordinarily there will not be a single molecule of the supposedly active ingredient in any dose of the homeopathic "medicine". If you take it, what you're getting is distilled water, nothing more and nothing less.

http://www.homeopathy.org/research/research_reviews/Ernst.pdf (broken link)
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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jackmccullough: Vaccines do not work on the principle of "like cures like", they work by stimulating the immune system to create antibodies to the bacterium or virus that causes the infection. There is no similarity to the two principles. Furthermore, you undoubtedly know that, by application of Avogadro's Number and the ridiculous dilutions that homeopathic preparations contain, ordinarily there will not be a single molecule of the supposedly active ingredient in any dose of the homeopathic "medicine". If you take it, what you're getting is distilled water, nothing more and nothing less.
I think I may have written that so it was not clear. No, no, I absolutely realize that vaccines are NOT "nothing" in alcohol. I realize that. My only point was for the non-vaccine people that it's semantics. Obviously, I realize vaccines use the dead (generally) virus. My only comparison of using "like cures like" is that the virus (which is real and present) is acting as an agent that prevents the very thing that was put into the body (the dead virus). It was my certainly non-successful way of trying to equate the semantics of homeopathy with vaccines.

I know they are extremely diluted, but at one point I did buy into that theory (I was very young then and it had just come to the U.S. in awareness). Of course, I also never equated it with an actual vaccine -- in my mind they were different. But to those who are into homeopathic tinctures, I only tried to find a way to make it less painful to accept that vaccines use dead viruses to fight the very live viruses one might come in contact with. (Thus, the dead virus -- the same or like the same -- prevents the disease which is the same -- semantically, "like cures like" -- the dead virus of chicken pox prevents the disease of live chicken pox..." gee, I hope I explained that clearly enough...)

I guess I'm not doing too well at explaining that. I did not mean that they were one and the same, but semantically, it is similar. Does that make sense?? Thanks!
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