We've had Enough of Keynesian Economics (John Kerry, McCain, Iraq, global warming)

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by sanrene

Oh, I have no doubt that you and many other leftists would like people to stop pointing out obama's failures, lies and scandals. Too bad we didn't find that kind of charity from the Left in the 8 years of bush. You won't find it now, either.

So I'm a "leftist" now, huh? I guess supporting Reagan when liberalism got out of control made me a... what? I'm a pragmatist and can simply see the bigger picture. I am not bogged down by ideology like you are.

Fortunately, a majority of the American people disagree with you. Wrong/right track numbers are abysmal.

Again, thinking the general population has a clue what they're talking about regarding economics. There's a reason people get advanced degrees in the field - it's not simple, despite what people completely lacking training in the field would like to think. Notice how many times people reduce economics to a level they can understand, like their credit card or budgeting for their family. They assume a global system operates on the same principles, so they understandably get frustrated when the different rules come into play.

And - even if you do want to trust polling - Obama's ratings are over 50% and far higher than Reagan right now, who also had to make hard decisions that the majority didn't like but that worked in the end for his time and place.

For all your seething hatred, you will be proven wrong in time. Enjoy the middle period while it lasts.

What does this mean? The markets work just fine, especially when the government gets out of the way. Under the leadership of obama and the dems, the exact opposite has happened.

Blinded by your ideology, clearly you have forgotten the past 8 years - and in many ways past 30 years - when government slowly got out of the way of markets and let them run free only to.... collapse from greed.

Yeah. Sorry, kiddo, but we need some government back in the system to keep things smooth.

No, its not up for debate. Dozens of state analysis showed just how bogus those numbers were and still are.

Are those the same states that were able to keep running because of stimulus funding? Sometimes I get confused when Republicans are out cutting ribbons on job-creation projects they voted against.

The proof and confirmation of the stimulus failure is the "jobs program" obama and the dems are desperate to pass.

I guess the (at least) hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people working who otherwise wouldn't be don't really matter because it doesn't fit your ideological narrative.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

Afraid to tax!!?!?!? Saggy, it is THIER MONEY, not yours. You do not have a right to take thier money or tell them how to spend it.

No, I'm right up there with them facing that same looming 39.6%, so yes, it IS my money we are talking about. And it is not rights, but obligations and responsibilities that you reprobate trolls, kiters, and low-grade freeloaders try to evade.

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

The Rich rule???

Can you tell me again how long have you lived on this planet?

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

Is this really what you think, Saggy? I think THE PEOPLE, regardless of income or despite what liberals think of them, should rule. These "ignorant' people are alot smarter than you think and your arrogance and attitude of academic and moral superiority speaks volumes of your perception of "freedom and liberty for all'. It appears, in your mind, some animals are more equal than others, just like a good tyrant.

Dude, when you have medical issues, do you go to the convenience store or to the doctor's office? Be careful how you answer that question...

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

Enlightened and intelliengent people in government? Most of the people who are intelligent are in buisness and the sciences and have no interest in goverment. I would offer that the twits are interested in government. Witness Nancy Pelosi. These are not the cream of the crop, but are the waste. I would rather have one of the "hillbillies",for which you hold such contempt, in charge rather than one of these professional crooks.

Nancy Pelosi? You don't even know Nancy Pelosi. What a piece of work you are. You have comic book caricatures of people in government to go by, and you think you know what you are talking about. What a fine example of over-reach. As for the waste, this wonderful poll is asking people who didn't get through high school algebra about the merits of Keynesian economics. Does that make sense to you? All people have their areas of competence. You want ditches dug? Talk to a ditch-digger. You want to make a napoleon? Talk to a pastry chef. You want to weld together the components of a new elevator car? Talk to a welder. You want to know about economics, you don't go to any of ditch-diggers, pastry chefs, or welders. It's out of their area of competence. Is that a really tough concept for you to handle? You think its disrespectful for someone to downgrade the opinions of people in areas that they know absolutely nothing about? That's really very PC of you...I didn't realize you were into all that PC stuff so heavily.

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

Complex issues???!?! Saggy, you are rich! Most of the issues in government are common sense issues that any child can understand and implement-

LOL. You're more of a basket case than I thought. Please have this child of yours who can understand and implement the appropriate methodologies for winding down a zombie super-bank get in touch with me. I have some friends who could use a hand with that.

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

Politics does not require any advanced degrees or education nor does it require the courage and hard work required to succeed in buisness.

I see. You think governing is politics. In the same sense that an after-dinner mint is fashionably dining out. You're just very poorly connected to the real world on this score and, of course, others.

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

I can see why fascism and communism (authoritarian socialism) are so appealing to the liberal, as the core beliefs of academic and moral superiority are more at home in those systems than in a republic. News flash here, Saggy- In the US (at least for now), you do not have any more rights or authority than the "dirty masses" you despise. That's what makes America great, and is why you hate America. What you wish for is a feudalistic system in which the "enlightened" rule over the serfs. That is what makes your kind an enemy of liberty and the principles upon which the country was founded.

Get carried away much? The poll in the OP is meaningless. It asks a question that the typical respondent has no means of answering. That's a fact. How that gets translated into an embrace of feudalism is not quite as clear. Maybe you should go lie down for a bit...

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by sanrene

Again, you continue to spin what was said to sell the Failed Stimulus and the results so far.

Obama and his "uniquely qualified" team did indeed make promises that have not come to fruition. I don't know why some won't hold this administration accountable for what they said and did.

I have no doubt that obama, and you, will find some fuzzy mathematics to claim that his stimulus has created 4 million jobs by the end of 2010, just as the actual record says we lost 3 million.

Pray tell WHY we need ANOTHER stimulus, in the form of a jobs bill, if the the original Failed Stimulus worked so well.

That is all the proof that is really needed - the desperation of obama and the dems to pass another stimulus.

I just realized, in reading this post, that the core problem here is that you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a stimulus. I guess this gets back to why laypersons shouldn't be valued for their economic insights or opinions, but I will try to explain. Get your notebook out.

See, the stimulus isn't supposed to create net jobs. It's supposed to create and protect jobs to minimize the loss of net jobs from the private sector. It essentially keeps the trough from going as low as it would if the market were simply left to fail and then correct itself on its own.

It keeps people working and keeps capital flowing through the system until the market can correct itself. In this case, it kept local and state governments, contractors, and our industrial base from collapsing due to external factors beyond their control.

Perhaps now that you have been schooled in how stimulus' are supposed to work, you will understand why there is no disagreement from professionals that it has made a significant impact on the recession. The only real disagreement is how much of an impact is has / will have, but no doubt there has been a significant impact.

[summers73]

There is a zero percent probability that a salaried employee trolls on CD and makes nearly 400K. However, I'm sure it makes them FEEL better about themselves trying to convince others that is indeed the case.

[sanrene]

So I'm a "leftist" now, huh? I guess supporting Reagan when liberalism got out of control made me a... what? I'm a pragmatist and can simply see the bigger picture. I am not bogged down by ideology like you are.

Oh my, this is hilarious. You, as well as your savior, are indeed ideologues. The difference between us is that I am honest enough to admit I am a partisan.

Again, thinking the general population has a clue what they're talking about regarding economics. There's a reason people get advanced degrees in the field - it's not simple, despite what people completely lacking training in the field would like to think. Notice how many times people reduce economics to a level they can understand, like their credit card or budgeting for their family. They assume a global system operates on the same principles, so they understandably get frustrated when the different rules come into play.

See, here we go again. You are channeling obama perfectly. Everyone in this country that disagrees with his radical agenda must be too dumb to understand something as simple as spending money you don't have. What applies in everyday life, living within your means, applies to the government as well, even though people like you would make it into a complex, contorted issue.

And - even if you do want to trust polling - Obama's ratings are over 50% and far higher than Reagan right now, who also had to make hard decisions that the majority didn't like but that worked in the end for his time and place.

Hogwash. There has been no other president who has fallen so far in such a short period of time. Going into his 2nd year, he is toxic to his party and ALL his big liberal agenda items are basically DOA.

For all your seething hatred, you will be proven wrong in time. Enjoy the middle period while it lasts.

I understand that anyone bringing to light obama's failures, lies, scandal and more lies will earn your hatred and loathing. Too bad, get used to it. If only the Left had been as charitable as you would have the right be.

Blinded by your ideology, clearly you have forgotten the past 8 years - and in many ways past 30 years - when government slowly got out of the way of markets and let them run free only to.... collapse from greed.

Again, government meddling was the cause of the sub-prime debacle, especially the dems, who forced the banks to loan to unqualified, low income people so as not to be deemed racist.

Yeah. Sorry, kiddo, but we need some government back in the system to keep things smooth.

Are those the same states that were able to keep running because of stimulus funding?

You still don't get it.

I guess the (at least) hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people working who otherwise wouldn't be don't really matter because it doesn't fit your ideological narrative.

Where? You do realize the rate dropped because people have stopped looking for jobs?

[sanrene]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

I just realized, in reading this post, that the core problem here is that you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a stimulus. I guess this gets back to why laypersons shouldn't be valued for their economic insights or opinions, but I will try to explain. Get your notebook out.

See, the stimulus isn't supposed to create net jobs. It's supposed to create and protect jobs to minimize the loss of net jobs from the private sector. It essentially keeps the trough from going as low as it would if the market were simply left to fail and then correct itself on its own.

It keeps people working and keeps capital flowing through the system until the market can correct itself. In this case, it kept local and state governments, contractors, and our industrial base from collapsing due to external factors beyond their control.

Perhaps now that you have been schooled in how stimulus' are supposed to work, you will understand why there is no disagreement from professionals that it has made a significant impact on the recession. The only real disagreement is how much of an impact is has / will have, but no doubt there has been a significant impact.

OMG. I am speechless...almost. I realize you just regurgitated that from the WH talking points. You have to remember what they said as the Failed Stimulus was being sold.

An "immediate" jolt to the economy. UE would not rise above 8% (for that to happen, jobs would be created).

You also must have missed the CBO report of Jan 2009, before the stimulus, that said the recession would END by late 2009/early 2010, WITHOUT any government intervention (i.e., The Failed Stimulus).

Really, get some sources other than parroting obama's lies and rhetoric.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by summers73

There is a zero percent probability that a salaried employee trolls on CD and makes nearly 400K. However, I'm sure it makes them FEEL better about themselves trying to convince others that is indeed the case.

Never say never, buckaroo. Especially when not in possession of the facts.

[ozzie679]

It's funny how "Keynesian" has become a mainstream word

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by sanrene

OMG. I am speechless...almost. I realize you just regurgitated that from the WH talking points. You have to remember what they said as the Failed Stimulus was being sold.

An "immediate" jolt to the economy. UE would not rise above 8% (for that to happen, jobs would be created).

You also must have missed the CBO report of Jan 2009, before the stimulus, that said the recession would END by late 2009/early 2010, WITHOUT any government intervention (i.e., The Failed Stimulus).

Really, get some sources other than parroting obama's lies and rhetoric.

1. Let the 8% thing go. I know it's the only thing you have to hold onto as a clear mistake, but Obama and Biden have both admitted they were wrong about it. Let it go.

2. Either the government's numbers are cooked or their not. You can't really cite CBO on one hand and then refute government predictions of unemployment rates on the other.

It's pretty obvious to anybody that the market wasn't going to adjust on its own after purging almost 800,000 jobs a month in the beginnning of 09. That's just completely unrealistic.

[summers73]

Originally Posted by saganista

Never say never, buckaroo. Especially when not in possession of the facts.

However, there is a inverse correlation between the amount of money one earns and the amount they claim they earn on their W2. There is also an inverse correlation between the amount of time one spends posting partisan postings and the amount of $$$ one earns.

...buckaroo.