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For every diatribe like Hirsi Ali, you can find another Muslim woman who states just the opposite. Why do we give Ali's point of view more weight and validity than a Muslim woman who loves her life, her country and her culture?
20yrsinBranson
Perhaps you should ask this Muslim girl in Turkey...no wait, she was murdered via an "honor killing" this week ......BURIED ALIVE.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
ha ha ha ha I love that statement. "Unaware that they are being mistreated". You have really got to be kidding me. Mistreatment does not exist unawares. It is the subjective interpretation of the victim that determines whether or not mistreatment exists.
That is the most bizarre thing that I have ever read in my entire life.
OMG PEOPLE ARE HAPPY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT AWARE THEY ARE BEING MISTREATED. Can you even BEGIN to see the insanity in that concept?
20yrsinBranson
If that statement is so unbelievable, then tell me why so many women in the US opt to stay with and make excuses for abusing husbands?
ha ha ha ha I love that statement. "Unaware that they are being mistreated". You have really got to be kidding me. Mistreatment does not exist unawares. It is the subjective interpretation of the victim that determines whether or not mistreatment exists.
That is the most bizarre thing that I have ever read in my entire life.
OMG PEOPLE ARE HAPPY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT AWARE THEY ARE BEING MISTREATED. Can you even BEGIN to see the insanity in that concept?
20yrsinBranson
I understand the "insanity" behind the concept, but it's not that far fetched. When it's what you know and what you accept, it is normal. Not to mention that if you surround yourself with others who live through the same, it's the norm.
Using another example: kids join gangs because it's the normal thing to do in the environment in which they live. Are those kids NOT AWARE that they don't have to? They might be, they just know (or think they know) that they have to in order to survive.
Ex-gang members hide their faces and distort their voices while talking about the gang they left on tv. Is that for fun? Or is that to make sure some moron from the gang they left won't go shoot up their mother's house?
It is not just in other societies. Sharia law is making its way into Western countries. In England it has a very strong foothold through the door. IN Ireland there is a bill that has been put forward to accomodate Sharia law in the hopes of attracting Islamic business investments.
IMO, American women should be vigilant against allowing Sharia law gaining acceptance in the United States. Is this something we want for our daughters and grand-daughters?
YES! American woman SHOULD BE AGAINST this DISGUSTING religion and Sharia Law.
Burying your daughters alive? Hitting them with cars? SHAME ON THEM!
GET OUT of this country if you hate women so much. Don't posion other countries like England the US with the cancer. GO kill your mom if you hate women so much. She is just a woman who gave birth to you.
WARNING-kind of graphic but it is censored. This is a pic of man who got stoned ALIVE because he was unfaithful. I am against being unfaithful but you dont deserve to die because of it.
ALSO-"AN IRAQI-BORN lout crudely spat on the medals of a dead war veteran as they were worn by his grandson at a Remembrance Day parade, a court heard yesterday." http://express.lineone.net/posts/vie...-hero-s-medals
IN ENGLAND! SHAME! I hope their people stand up to this!
I understand the "insanity" behind the concept, but it's not that far fetched. When it's what you know and what you accept, it is normal. Not to mention that if you surround yourself with others who live through the same, it's the norm.
Using another example: kids join gangs because it's the normal thing to do in the environment in which they live. Are those kids NOT AWARE that they don't have to? They might be, they just know (or think they know) that they have to in order to survive.
Ex-gang members hide their faces and distort their voices while talking about the gang they left on tv. Is that for fun? Or is that to make sure some moron from the gang they left won't go shoot up their mother's house?
Our culture and the norms by which we live are what keep civilization together. Certainly there are different lifestyles. However, how productive would it be to go against an accepted lifestyle in an environment where it is considered normal and preferential? People are gang members because it is to their advantage to be a gang member in the environment where they live. Otherwise, you are going to be considered an "outsider" and ostracized (or worse, killed).
If you live in a Muslim culture, it is definitely to your advantage to follow the rules whether you like them or agree with them. Personally, I do not like to wear clothes in the Summer, I would much rather be naked, but in my culture it is considered normal to wear clothing, and if I chose not to, maybe I would be HAPPIER, but I would be ostracized and possibly arrested!
People in small towns may not wish to attend church or community events, but in order to be accepted as "one of the crowd", they feel strong pressure to do it, whether or not they care to. In a corporate environment NOBODY likes going to meetings, but to not attend them would be professional suicide.
So you see? In the real world, we all must do things that we don't care to do in order to get along harmoniously with other members of our culture and society. If we chose NOT to, then we must be willing to accept the consequences of our actions.
You and many other uninformed people seem to be of the opinion that Muslim women are prisoners in their own country because they are not allowed to drive or be in public without male escorts. This does not prevent them from living full, happy lives and even LEAVING the country if they wish to. As with any law/rule there are many ways around it, to attain that which you desire. Also, there are many hundreds of thousands of women who are Muslim and do not live in strictly Muslim countries (i.e. Canada, US, etc.) These women could walk away from their religion at any moment without any fear of reprisal and yet they do not. In fact, there are a great many female converts TO Islam in these countries.
I am always conflicted about women in Islam. I have a lot of friends who are moderate Muslims. The life they lead is not very different to mine. None of the women I know are obviously oppressed. Of course there are the extremists we read about. Are there more in Islam than any other religion, probably, it sure seems that way. The issue I have is that as much as feminism is about equality, it must also be about respect. Women respecting one another, and also respecting choices other women make that do not correspond with our beliefs. Who is to define a feminist goal or achievement within each culture. There are obvious human rights travesties, and I'm not talking about those, but I am talking about the huge gray area. I do believe the women within those religions and cultures are the only ones who can enact change. There are a number of Muslim feminists such as Nayereh Tohidi, Shaheen Sardar Ali, Fereshteh Ahmadi, Leila Ahmed, Irshad Manji, Wafa Sultan, Riffat Hassan, and their writings and organizations are inspiring. If we really want to see change those are the people I think we should wholeheartedly support. They are proud of their faith, and work hard towards their goal of more gender equality within Islam.
I may absolutely hate the role of women in Islam, but I always expect people to respect my personal spiritual views, so do we not extend the courtesy to Muslims too?
You do realize that Muslim countries have produced seven female heads of state right?
Benazir Bhutto - Pakistan
Mame Madior Boye - Senegal
Tansu Ciller - Turkey
Kaqusha Jashari - Kosovo
Megawati Sukarnoptri - Indonesia
Khaleda Zia - Bangladesh
Sheikh Hasina - Bangladesh
I totally agree and have been saying as much on CD.
The left-wingers (not all, but many) like to take the stance that we should not involve ourselves with the "social policies" of other sovereign nations. They like to ignore the blatant human rights violations happening with great frequency in Islamic dominated regions.
I'm for women everyone having a choice in what she wants to wear, if she wants children and how many she wants, who she wants to marry (be it MALE OR FEMALE), etc.
Many in the U.S. think because women in Islamic countries are covering up they're being repressed in some way. They on the other hand see Western women displaying themselves like pieces of meat because of the way SOME women dress in Western society. I won't say in some countries women aren't forced to wear the hijab. I disagree with women being FORCED to wear it but we can't assume every woman who wears the hijab is being forced to wear it.
I really can't get too worked up over the problems in other societies, especially ones that have been around much longer than us. Yes, I feel bad for them. And in some ways they probably feel bad for us. But it's not OUR PLACE to rule the world. Really, it's not.
Agreed. If the US pursues this, it will be seen by the rest of the world as another example of "cultural imperialism". As if we need another reason to hate America more than they do already...
Agreed. If the US pursues this, it will be seen by the rest of the world as another example of "cultural imperialism". As if we need another reason to hate America more than they do already...
What part of Sharia law within the US and the "honor killings" that have already occured here, within our own borders, is difficult for y'all to understand? Why should we not remain vigilant and keep Sharia law out of the United States?
What part of Sharia law within the US and the "honor killings" that have already occured here, within our own borders, is difficult for y'all to understand? Why should we not remain vigilant and keep Sharia law out of the United States?
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that atrocities committed against some Muslim women are despicable. I'm not exactly sure I understand what you are suggesting. There are a lot of Muslims living in the US, many born here. Are we to impose restrictions on their beliefs? I just wasn't sure what you meant.
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