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No sane person is advocating a government take-over of all US businesses.
Do you have a problem with government jobs and people feeding their families?
I would characterize your overzealous fidelity to some political prejudice of government as untethered from the facts and morality.
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn
You're certain I don't know what I'm talking about so why don't you enlighten me with an explanation of how it is?
Where to begin, wow. Umm, firstly, I do not have a problem with necessary government jobs within reason and within budget. Secondly, you fail to understand (from your posts) that government salaries are paid for with taxpayer money. If the government is running record level budget deficits along with (and partially due to) record level lows of tax revenue, what sense does it make to add to those budget deficits by expanding government jobs that are paid for via tax revenue, ...or in the case of Obama, loans from China upon which the interest alone will cripple any economic recovery.
If you can justify the expansion of government jobs without an equal expansion of government revenues, then you have an argument to make. Somehow, I doubt you can justify that, and hence you have no argument. Simply put, there is no justification. Unless of course you want to go the route of "well these people need jobs to feed their families and pay their mortgages". And to which I would again sarcastically reply (as I did above) with this statement:
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Well hell, why don't we all just quit our jobs and work for the government? Let's make every single job a government job! AWESOME idea!! [/sarcasm]
Where to begin, wow. Umm, firstly, I do not have a problem with necessary government jobs within reason and within budget. Secondly, you fail to understand (from your posts) that government salaries are paid for with taxpayer money. If the government is running record level budget deficits along with (and partially due to) record level lows of tax revenue, what sense does it make to add to those budget deficits by expanding government jobs that are paid for via tax revenue, ...or in the case of Obama, loans from China upon which the interest alone will cripple any economic recovery.
If you can justify the expansion of government jobs without an equal expansion of government revenues, then you have an argument to make. Somehow, I doubt you can justify that, and hence you have no argument. Simply put, there is no justification. Unless of course you want to go the route of "well these people need jobs to feed their families and pay their mortgages". And to which I would again sarcastically reply (as I did above) with this statement:
To confine all governmental activity/expenditures to the constraint of a balanced budget ignores the reality of progress through debt. Most real progress in this country comes from assuming debt to accomplish some end. In other words, your concern for a balanced budget without deficit is not merited. Debt for the right reasons is a good thing.
So what if some or even all of the salaries paid to government employees comes from taxes? The flow of money has a circularity to it. Henry Ford paid his workers enough to buy the cars the workers made. Government employees through their labor add value to the tax money paid to them as salary...whether providing services or goods.
There's your justification.
As for the moral argument of a person housing/feeding/clothing there family from wages earned from a government job, it is good and sound and based on principles from our country's history -- see the New Deal.
To confine all governmental activity/expenditures to the constraint of a balanced budget ignores the reality of progress through debt. Most real progress in this country comes from assuming debt to accomplish some end. In other words, your concern for a balanced budget without deficit is not merited. Debt for the right reasons is a good thing.
Heck, why ever strive for a balanced budget if real progress only occurs from debt assumption? Please enlighten me as to what the right reasons are in hiring governmental employees at a time when our nation can barely afford the interest payments on the loans we have to the extent that we have to borrow money just to pay our debt obligations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhorn
So what if some or even all of the salaries paid to government employees comes from taxes? The flow of money has a circularity to it. Henry Ford paid his workers enough to buy the cars the workers made. Government employees through their labor add value to the tax money paid to them as salary...whether providing services or goods.
Using your logic, it makes perfect sense to put everyone on the government payroll... after all, it has a circulatory effect right?
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn
There's your justification.
Weak.
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn
As for the moral argument of a person housing/feeding/clothing there family from wages earned from a government job, it is good and sound and based on principles from our country's history -- see the New Deal.
Hahahaaa, and there you have it, your true colors.
Heck, why ever strive for a balanced budget if real progress only occurs from debt assumption? Please enlighten me as to what the right reasons are in hiring governmental employees at a time when our nation can barely afford the interest payments on the loans we have to the extent that we have to borrow money just to pay our debt obligations.
The justification is that people are hired to do jobs, i.e., add value by virtue of labor done thus stimulating the economy.
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Using your logic, it makes perfect sense to put everyone on the government payroll... after all, it has a circulatory effect right?
Reasonable people can recognize an awkwardly utilized slipperyslope argument. That's not logic, that's rhetoric.
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Weak.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying b/c it is very uncontroversial.
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Hahahaaa, and there you have it, your true colors.
Yes there is a moral component to my perspective. How astute of you to notice it when I go out of my way to make it evident. A livable wage (no matter what the source) is no laughing matter.
It seems to me that your anti-gov. prejudice governs your perspective.
What's wrong with gov. created jobs? They provide income and services and stimulate the economy. What's wrong with that?
It's wrong when they take the money out my employer's pocket, and give it to the government, who then puts it in someone else's pocket. You haven't done anything other than rob Peter to pay Paul. In addition to the exchange of money that is available, you are creating fear. So now my employer not only won't give me my dollar, they will hang on to ALL their dollars, for when the government comes back for more. Now they have to let me go, because there's no more dollars.
And that government employee that got the dollar? They're doing half the work of me, because it's not their money, or the government's money. So they aren't motivated to earn that money.
This might not be a completely horrible point if the previous administration hadn't gone and completely blown the budget surplus left to them and increased the size of the government by record numbers.
And please don't bring the previous administration up. We had an unwelcome infiltration into the congressional chamber somewhere along the way. Nice try.
I think his main accomplishment is the destruction of the democrat party. That's a good thing because they do not represent the majority of Americans. He lost all of the good will he had when he took office except from the committed left (who are about 20-25% of the population, if that) and most blacks who support him around, what, 90+%?
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