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And my church meets in the basement of a school on sundays. Not every church is like the vatican.
No offense, but your attitude shows more than a little ignorance.
before you decide that I am "ignorant" please, go take a good look at the churches in your community. How many of them are acitvely involved in any substantial outreach programs to the poor or the general population outside of their own congregation? How many have very expensive, elaborate places of worship? I have stated that my premise that Churches are poor recipents of charity money have some notable exceptions. I think you may be the one who is less than enlightened about how most donations to churches is used.
You say such things in such a way that would lead others to believe such things were "mainstream" in the conservative wing of the republican party.
Of course you have nothing to back up such allegations but being liberal just saying it means it must be true.
Not that it means a whole lot but I am Catholic and while I am pro-life I will give you a clue in that 99% of Catholics practice birth control and we were no exception.
I am anti-abortion because I believe a fetus is a human being whether it is 10 days old, 4 months old or a week from full term.
I'm still waiting for the link Keegan, show us the type of insurance the lady had that had cancer. And before you go off on this trail, my mother died of cancer, they could do nothing for her, that is, within the realm of keeping her alive for maybe a few more months and costing enormous amounts of money for her to just live on life support in a bed and do nothing else. I'm waiting for more lies of the right wing cruel minded goofballs pertaining to death squads.
I gave you her name and state, thinking that would be enough if you actually wanted to look it up. Ok, here, let me spoon feed it to you.
Ms Wagner was diagnosed with cancer. She had the Oregon Health plan, which offers coverage to low & no income persons in Oregon. That health plan refused her the drugs that would have helped to keep her alive a few more months, offerring instead to pay for the drugs that would let her kill herself, so she could "Die with Dignity". I'm not offerring any comments as to what they insurance plan SHOULD have done. I'm just offering you proof that what Sarah Palin & others referred to as death panels, and which proponents of government health care say will never happen, is already happening in a government healt plan in Oregon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
Don't cry about the tax breaks coming to an end, you cannot fight 2 wars in a recession with no income. I wished the repugs would for once get real and stop telling lies about democrats and liberals, I won't hold my breath though.
You're changing your argument here, clearly now that you see you are wrong. You said, in the post to which I originally responded, that you were waiting for the tax increases republicans were warning about, and you said it in such a was as to suggest we were wrong, that there are no tax increases. I pointed out the well known truth of President Obama choosing to let the Bush tax cuts expire to enlighten you to the fact you need not wait for that prediction to come true, it's scheduled to come true. President Obama & the rest of you liberals can play games with the technical language all you want, the truth is that President Obama has chosen a course of action that will cause everyone who pays federal income taxes to pay MORE federal income taxes.
I gave you her name and state, thinking that would be enough if you actually wanted to look it up. Ok, here, let me spoon feed it to you.
Ms Wagner was diagnosed with cancer. She had the Oregon Health plan, which offers coverage to low & no income persons in Oregon. That health plan refused her the drugs that would have helped to keep her alive a few more months, offerring instead to pay for the drugs that would let her kill herself, so she could "Die with Dignity". I'm not offerring any comments as to what they insurance plan SHOULD have done. I'm just offering you proof that what Sarah Palin & others referred to as death panels, and which proponents of government health care say will never happen, is already happening in a government healt plan in Oregon.
This woman was on Medicaid, something many repubs like to decry until an example like this comes along. It is not clear that the treatment she wanted would have extended her life. The letter about assisted suicide, which is legal in Oregon, was uncalled for. Sarah Palin is dumber than a box of rocks, and her own grandson is using government (gasp!) health care.
This woman was on Medicaid, something many repubs like to decry until an example like this comes along. It is not clear that the treatment she wanted would have extended her life. The letter about assisted suicide, which is legal in Oregon, was uncalled for. Sarah Palin is dumber than a box of rocks, and her own grandson is using government (gasp!) health care.
You seem to be missing the point of the post. Someone asked for proof of the "Death Panels" that republicans warned about. Libs say such a thing can never happen. This story is just proof that it's already happening, in a state medical plan much like the one that is proposed as the national "government option." And Ms Palin may be dumber than a box of rocks, but she saw this, and you seem to be missing it. Are you dumber than that same box, or are you letting yourself be blinded by hatred & partisanship?
You seem to be missing the point of the post. Someone asked for proof of the "Death Panels" that republicans warned about. Libs say such a thing can never happen. This story is just proof that it's already happening, in a state medical plan much like the one that is proposed as the national "government option." And Ms Palin may be dumber than a box of rocks, but she saw this, and you seem to be missing it. Are you dumber than that same box, or are you letting yourself be blinded by hatred & partisanship?
They have legal assisted sucide in Oregon. Some jerk offered these services to this woman. There was nothing in any federal bill about this.
They have legal assisted sucide in Oregon. Some jerk offered these services to this woman. Personal attacks are against the TOS.
The state run health plan offered these services to this woman, not just some random jerk. It's the government health care plan refusing to pay for the medicine that her doctors said would likely keep her alive longer. It's the government health care plan that said they wouldn't he;p her stay alive, but they would help her die. Like it or not, agree with it or not, this is EXACTLY what the uproar over death panels was about. This is what was predicted. This is what liberals mocked Ms Palin and other conservatives for being afraid of, insisting that they wre paranoid anti Obama freaks, and yet, here it is. The state run health care system chose, based on nothing other than finances, to refuse to pay for an insured person's medicine, and decided instead that it would be more cost effective to help her die. This is the EPITOME of the Death Panel.
And thanks for the reminder on the TOS, but it's unnecessary. I attacked no one. You made a comment about Ms Palin's intelligence. I merely inquired about your own intelligence in relation to hers, as she had clearly been aware for some time, of some facts regarding government run heath care that you still seem to not see.
The state run health plan offered these services to this woman, not just some random jerk. It's the government health care plan refusing to pay for the medicine that her doctors said would likely keep her alive longer. It's the government health care plan that said they wouldn't he;p her stay alive, but they would help her die. Like it or not, agree with it or not, this is EXACTLY what the uproar over death panels was about. This is what was predicted. This is what liberals mocked Ms Palin and other conservatives for being afraid of, insisting that they wre paranoid anti Obama freaks, and yet, here it is. The state run health care system chose, based on nothing other than finances, to refuse to pay for an insured person's medicine, and decided instead that it would be more cost effective to help her die. This is the EPITOME of the Death Panel.
And thanks for the reminder on the TOS, but it's unnecessary. I attacked no one. You made a comment about Ms Palin's intelligence. I merely inquired about your own intelligence in relation to hers, as she had clearly been aware for some time, of some facts regarding government run heath care that you still seem to not see.
Who said the medication would keep her alive longer? I believe it was the patient, not her doctors. By some jerk, I meant some jerk at the Oregon Medicaid office. It was offensive. Do I have to say that again before you'll believe me in that regard? There has been NOTHING in any federal bill allowing for legal assisted suicide. NOTHING!
Who said the medication would keep her alive longer? I believe it was the patient, not her doctors. By some jerk, I meant some jerk at the Oregon Medicaid office. It was offensive. Do I have to say that again before you'll believe me in that regard? There has been NOTHING in any federal bill allowing for legal assisted suicide. NOTHING!
Actually, it was her doctor. Here are a couple of quotes from the article to which I linked;
Quote:
Her oncologist prescribed the drug Tarceva to slow its growth, giving her another four to six months to live.
and
Quote:
A 2005 New England Journal of Medicine study found the drug erlotinib, marketed as Tarceva, does marginally improve survival for patients with advanced non-small cell lung cancer who had completed standard chemotherapy.
The median survival among patients who took erlotinib was 6.7 months compared to 4.7 months for those on placebo. At one year, 31 percent of the patients taking erlotinib were still alive compared to 22 percent of those taking the placebo.
So yes, it was her Oncologist as well as a published study in the NE Journal of Medicine. And the government insurance plan refused payment. This is the Death Panel. You can say it's not in any federal legislation all you want, but that's beside the point. Ms. Palin and others told us that, if we let government be in control of health insurance, they would step in between doctors & patients, overriding medically prescribed treatments because thay are, in the government's opinion, not cost effective. I'm not arguing the validity of the plan, or the cost effectiveness of paying for the medication, or how long she would have lived on the medication. (In fact, the drug maker, Genentech, heard of her plight and guaranteed her medication for a year, free of charge. I believe she died before that years supply was exhausted) I'm just pointing out that, despite what proponants of government health care say, Death Panels are real, they are here, and they will get between doctors & their patients. This is in fact, in response to someone who mockingly stated, in this very thread, that he was waiting for proof of death panels. Well, here's proof.
As to you feeling that it was offensive; I believe you. I never said I thought you didn't find it offensive. That doesn't change what happened; that a representative of the government health plan refused to pay for a doctor prescribed medication, and offered up help in dying instead. And of course it's not in any federal bill yet. Liberal politics operate under the premise that it's easier to get a mile if you take it foot at a time. They won't introduce suicide drugs until AFTER government health care is passed.
Actually, it was her doctor. Here are a couple of quotes from the article to which I linked; and
So yes, it was her Oncologist as well as a published study in the NE Journal of Medicine. And the government insurance plan refused payment. This is the Death Panel. You can say it's not in any federal legislation all you want, but that's beside the point. Ms. Palin and others told us that, if we let government be in control of health insurance, they would step in between doctors & patients, overriding medically prescribed treatments because thay are, in the government's opinion, not cost effective. I'm not arguing the validity of the plan, or the cost effectiveness of paying for the medication, or how long she would have lived on the medication. (In fact, the drug maker, Genentech, heard of her plight and guaranteed her medication for a year, free of charge. I believe she died before that years supply was exhausted) I'm just pointing out that, despite what proponants of government health care say, Death Panels are real, they are here, and they will get between doctors & their patients. This is in fact, in response to someone who mockingly stated, in this very thread, that he was waiting for proof of death panels. Well, here's proof.
As to you feeling that it was offensive; I believe you. I never said I thought you didn't find it offensive. That doesn't change what happened; that a representative of the government health plan refused to pay for a doctor prescribed medication, and offered up help in dying instead. And of course it's not in any federal bill yet. Liberal politics operate under the premise that it's easier to get a mile if you take it foot at a time. They won't introduce suicide drugs until AFTER government health care is passed.
The published study said "marginally effective". You keep going on about the "death panels", but you keep forgetting that this was the state of Oregon, which has legalized assisted suicide. There were/are NO SUCH PROPOSALS in any of the FEDERAL bills being discussed right now. NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH. We can go on about this all night. I won't back down.
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