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Also, what would make you thing whatever gets passed would not be able to be improved and evolve over time?
ABC poll is conditional: People see flaws but also also see it as working for most people - 82 percent rate their health coverage positively. Among those who've had serious or chronic illness or injury in their family in the last year, an enormous 91 percent are satisfied with their care, and 86 percent are satisfied with their coverage. And, while 62% (according to this poll) favor UHC, that support falls to less than 4 in 10 if it means a limited choice of doctors, or waiting lists for non-emergency treatments.
A large percentage of those polled (78%) are concerned about costs. With premiums projected to increase, it doesn't seem that their concerns will be addressed. I don't think they realized that.
I don't have time to go through your other links right now, but thanks for providing them.
My issue is not with reform, it is with the current plan which no one understands, Congress doesn't know its contents (as attested to by Ms. Pelosi) but they are ready and willing to pass it into law. Which seems an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.
What would make me think whatever gets passed would not be able to be improved and evolve over time? What has the Government implemented that they have improved over time? I'm not from MO, but show me anyway.
I think you're a hopeless cause, you seem to have full and complete trust and faith in the federal government, because your only answer to everything is to hand over your life to the feds, and universal health care.
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water....here they come again. I thought the Canadian response would put to bed the discussion on what works in Canada , and will work here as well. The poster gave lots of facts about their system , dispelling a lot of the negative crap that always get out there when ever we talk about the Canadian health care System....I am sure you read His link as well ?
Why is it that you can not seem to agree that the Insurance Giants are the evil ones here ? Do you work for them ? Are you too blind to see ? You just want to keep spewing the Talking Points , that by now have been debunked , yet ," there you go again", as your famous Former leader always said.
The current Bill is a hold your nose proposal , I will agree with that, but , at this point , its not over yet , so lets see what comes out in the end vote. There are enough good things in the mix now , to vote for it, it is better than nothing, and that's what you guys are proposing , nothing.
Now , your statement about me trusting all to the federal Government. You want to make this personal ? I will tell you this...my dog in the fight at this point is , I am on Social Security , I DO benefit and am dependent in part to the Federal Government , just like the majority of the people in this Country.
If you hate the federal Government so much , I suggest you pull up stakes , and move to France , as they have the best health care System in the world. Or , like Rush Limbaugh , try Costa Rica , where they have "socialized medical". ... The first ones to the trough are always those who bray the loudest against the system, irrionic.
Granted, Obamacare as it stands now (what we know about it) is not Universal Health Care, but it's poised to become that.
I agree it is not UHC and that it would be a start toward becoming that. The operative word there is, start. Does this bill provide the final answer to the problem, absolutely not. Does it provide addition payoffs to specific industries, absolutely yes. Does it fully address the absolute need to address the exploding costs of care, absolutely not. Does this bill provide an avenue for the growing number of people who do not have access to effective care, absolutely yes. Passing this bill may not get us there, politics and influence being what it is, but one thing is absolutely certain, is that if we do not start addressing this whole issue, we will never get to an equitable solution.
ABC poll is conditional: People see flaws but also also see it as working for most people - 82 percent rate their health coverage positively. Among those who've had serious or chronic illness or injury in their family in the last year, an enormous 91 percent are satisfied with their care, and 86 percent are satisfied with their coverage. And, while 62% (according to this poll) favor UHC, that support falls to less than 4 in 10 if it means a limited choice of doctors, or waiting lists for non-emergency treatments.
A large percentage of those polled (78%) are concerned about costs. With premiums projected to increase, it doesn't seem that their concerns will be addressed. I don't think they realized that.
I don't have time to go through your other links right now, but thanks for providing them.
My issue is not with reform, it is with the current plan which no one understands, Congress doesn't know its contents (as attested to by Ms. Pelosi) but they are ready and willing to pass it into law. Which seems an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.
What would make me think whatever gets passed would not be able to be improved and evolve over time? What has the Government implemented that they have improved over time? I'm not from MO, but show me anyway.
Lots of things , starting with what FDR started during the Depression. Social Security is one of them, slow, imperfect , and problematic, but necessary. Life for a lot of seniors would be very hard with out it.....And , taking things to another venue...the National Parks System...do you want to trash that too ?
My issue is not with reform, it is with the current plan which no one understands, Congress doesn't know its contents (as attested to by Ms. Pelosi) but they are ready and willing to pass it into law. Which seems an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.
What would make me think whatever gets passed would not be able to be improved and evolve over time? What has the Government implemented that they have improved over time? I'm not from MO, but show me anyway.
How can you possibly think that any member of Congress does not know, with certainty, exactly what's in the bill? Pelosi did not attest to that, she simple stated that if you don't make the effort to find out what is in it, you will have to wait until it's passed to experience what's in it. The confusion and misinformation surrounding it, makes it hard to know what in it. My opinion, is do the work. Most people prefer to be told what's in it and very many of them, only hear what they want to hear. As far as Govt programs improving over time, Highways, Air Traffic, Military, VA, ....many more, and hopefully starting very soon, Health Care.
I think a lot of people share the feeling that life would be simpler if the government took care of all of it - "cradle to the grave", as they say.
Premiums will be automatically deducted from your bank account (government will have access to all your finances) and, quite possibly, benefits (if paid) will be deposited to it.
It's the lazy (wo)man's easy solution.
I think many of you are misunderstanding how health care insurance works in Canada. We are not taken care of as you say "cradle to grave". The program is simply an insurance program, run like any other....The difference is, and it's a big one from what I have read about US insurance companies is that it is NON PROFIT, and only covers those who pay their premiums. Since profit is removed from the equation the premiums are affordable for almost everyone.
Emergency care is available (as it is in the US) for all, paid up or not.
The MSP ( Medical Services Plan) does not invade my bank accounts, but send me a bill monthly...I have no idea why you would say that....Fear mongering perhaps?
A subsidy doesn't lower the cost, it only makes someone else pay for the cost. The 20% who don't get a subsidy are really screwed over.
The president LIES every time he says costs will go down for any American with health insurance. Costs are going nowhere but up and for the government plans the cost is going to go up at a significantly higher rate. This is NOT what the American people want, not at all. Giving folks a handout so they can afford more expensive government insurance is not the same as lowering costs so they can buy their own insurance with their own money. Oblahma doesn't seem to understand that.
Last edited by NCyank; 03-11-2010 at 10:30 AM..
Reason: fixed typo
Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water....here they come again. I thought the Canadian response would put to bed the discussion on what works in Canada , and will work here as well. The poster gave lots of facts about their system , dispelling a lot of the negative crap that always get out there when ever we talk about the Canadian health care System....I am sure you read His link as well ?
Why is it that you can not seem to agree that the Insurance Giants are the evil ones here ? Do you work for them ? Are you too blind to see ? You just want to keep spewing the Talking Points , that by now have been debunked , yet ," there you go again", as your famous Former leader always said.
The current Bill is a hold your nose proposal , I will agree with that, but , at this point , its not over yet , so lets see what comes out in the end vote. There are enough good things in the mix now , to vote for it, it is better than nothing, and that's what you guys are proposing , nothing.
Now , your statement about me trusting all to the federal Government. You want to make this personal ? I will tell you this...my dog in the fight at this point is , I am on Social Security , I DO benefit and am dependent in part to the Federal Government , just like the majority of the people in this Country.
If you hate the federal Government so much , I suggest you pull up stakes , and move to France , as they have the best health care System in the world. Or , like Rush Limbaugh , try Costa Rica , where they have "socialized medical". ... The first ones to the trough are always those who bray the loudest against the system, irrionic.
I do not "hate the federal Government" I have a healthy distrust of their ability to successfully run a national health care program. Medicare is suffering about $40 trillion in unfunded liabilities, if Medicare was a private insurer they would be out of business, and their CEO serving time in prison.
We have ten times the population of Canada, what works there may not work here. Canadians also use our country as a medical treatment relief valve, so their plan is not even operating in a bubble, it siphons off our medical system.
A health care system that works in Maine, may not work in Texas, or North Dakota, with over 300,000,000 people, 50 separate and independent states, a one size fits all, UHC system will not serve this country well.
We need a common sense approach to solving our rising health care costs, so we can make it affordable to all, and we will need good federal regulations to get there. But tossing in the towel and begging the federal government to take care of us is cowardly and foolish.
Who will be the nameless faces in government that decide what health care you will get in ten or fifty years from now? Who will these people be who decide upon the health care of our children and great grandchildren? What will their qualifications be? Will they be bureaucrats or doctors, will they be motivated by ideology, or will they have concern for our health? Who will these people be who decide our fate, do you know? No, there is no way you can Know, but you trust them with your health none the less.
I'm sorry, but we are not a socialist country, nor do we have centrally controlled government, even if progressives in both parties are trying to get us there.
A subsidy doesn't lower the cost, it only makes someone else pay for the cost. The 20% who don't get a subsidy are really screwed over.
Actually a subsidy does lower the cost. Not only by allowing those to take advantage of the benefit of preventing more expensive problems, but allowing them to get insurance covered care instead having to use emergency care at triple the cost. The higher income people will have some increase in their premiums, but certainly not enough to be characterized being "really screwed over".
Actually a subsidy does lower the cost. Not only by allowing those to take advantage of the benefit of preventing more expensive problems, but allowing them to get insurance covered care instead having to use emergency care at triple the cost. The higher income people will have some increase in their premiums, but certainly not enough to be characterized being "really screwed over".
The other part of your post is not worth comment.
No, according to the CBO the non group plans will have costs increases 10-13% HIGHER than it would be in our current system. Where do you see that the cost will be lower? Again, a subsidy does not lower the cost. The cost is going up, even more so with the help of the government.
As for thinking what the American people really want is not worth comment....it seems Oblahma agrees with you. Screw them, who cares what they want. Leave them all with no affordable options so they are FORCED onto plans with government subsidies. Everyone loves a handout.
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I'm not from MO, but show me anyway.
