Time To Cut Military Spending Drastically (Franken, free speech, companies, cost)
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....and thereby replenishing the funding so the military-industrial complex can be fed.
Since 9/11 I shudder to think how many enemies this country has made with its torture and detention and violence.
You have bought the lie, hook, line, and sinker. Have you not? We have tortured nobody. But that's what they want you to believe, and you believe it. A quick re-definition of "torture", and you buy it? You don't even know what torture is.
Has the U.S. military beheaded any of our captured enemies? Have we pulled out finger nails? Have we withheld food, water? You don't have a clue. You have bought into every leftist critic of the Bush adminstration. Ignorant people, who have no clue about defense, intelligence or anything military. Most have never served their country, and wouldn't. They are lazy cowards, who only wish to be "students" for the rest of their lives, ever gaining knowledge, and learning absolutely nothing. Does that describe you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
We have sown the wind, and are sure to reap the whirlwind. Get ready for the police state, all this neat hardware aint going away, it will just be "reallocated for domestic use and the apprehension of terror suspects"
Maybe waterboarding aint so bad after all.
BARF! What absolute vomit you post. From the pit of Hell.
You have bought the lie, hook, line, and sinker. Have you not? We have tortured nobody. But that's what they want you to believe, and you believe it. A quick re-definition of "torture", and you buy it? You don't even know what torture is.
Has the U.S. military beheaded any of our captured enemies? Have we pulled out finger nails? Have we withheld food, water? You don't have a clue. You have bought into every leftist critic of the Bush adminstration. Ignorant people, who have no clue about defense, intelligence or anything military. Most have never served their country, and wouldn't. They are lazy cowards, who only wish to be "students" for the rest of their lives, ever gaining knowledge, and learning absolutely nothing. Does that describe you?
BARF! What absolute vomit you post. From the pit of Hell.
I don't know how anyone of that mindset can stomach living in the United States.
Funny thing Clevelander. I'm always direct and never obtuse and posted my "rant" in the current language of the land in quite lucid clarity. What is it you are having difficulty comprehending? Did I misread you, because with some of you comments you could have fooled me?
Here you completely dismiss the record of history all the way back to the Ottoman Empire that documents the gross intolerance of Islam as a force for evil in the world. They didn't need our presence in the Middle East to become terrorists. They already were fundamentalist Islamic terrorists who believed that Muhammad was the last True Messenger of God and were all committed to either subjugation or death to all infidels. We, just happen to represent freedom, which is the last thing they would ever believe in. THAT is why they call us The Great Satan. They want to kill the messenger of freedom. That, friend, would be us.
Quote:
We set up shop in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War and that is what really put us on the radar of the terrorists
Then, likely using the same flawed reasoning opine thusly:
Quote:
If it wasn't the military's responsibility to stop us the first time, why are we expecting them to stop them the next time?
That comment, responding to the failure to stop 18 guys with box-cutters, is NOT the military's responsibility. It's of our domestic law enforcement and intelligence services coordination responsibility. I think you subsequently acknowledged that. However friend, without our military seeking out their roots in the Middle East (and elsewhere) and looking to exterminate them, we'd be fighting an ongoing assault upon our borders, our water supply, our food supply, ad nauseum ad infinitum. We take it to them OVER THERE with our military, so we don't get stuck fighting them in our streets and schools and shopping centers with our police OVER HERE. WORKS FOR ME! How about you? I mean...If we had to bring back some of our military..., say National Guard elements, to help fight terrorists here would you eliminate that from the budget?
Color me curious. but with this remark:
Quote:
The odds of an American dying from a terrorist attack are extremely low. You have a better chance of being electrocuted or drowning.
I get the impression that you may have been away in an isolated monastery retreat in the wilds of Tibet and missed 9-11. It WAS in all the world's papers though! I don't happen to have access this moment to the stats, but here in New York City I do NOT believe that we had in excess of 3,000 electrocutions or drownings. You see, this cavalier attitude about our security may be effecting your thinking on the "military budget". Just a thought. I could be wrong and you could be right . God forbid some terrorist makes it across our porous southern borders some day soon and reeks havoc upon us, but that's unlikely. I think we have signs identifying the border and an overstretched border patrol not allowed to shoot invaders. That should stop them huh! Jeesh..what was I thinkin'.
Someone should have warned me about what would happen to this thread once the extremist conservatives got a hold of it. The partisanship here is really showing. A lot of "our guys are the best and the other guys are all wrong." Things are never that black and white.
nonsenseguy: Just stop. You calling me brainwashed is absurd. My idea is outside of the box. Yours is the status quo. You go on and on about national defense and the Constitution and spending, and yadda, yadda, yadda. The Constitution talks about national defense, not national offense. I agree that our government has wasted a lot of money on a lot of things, and I'm sorry you disagree, but the military is one of those things.
doctorhugo: Forget the scare tactics. I remember September 11th, 2001 very well. And I remember how our country, led by our government, reacted completely inappropriately to the attack. The old "fighting them over there" line is ridiculous. As long as we defend our borders, we'll never be fighting them over here. There are a lot of "free" countries around the world. Of course it's very nuanced, but in a nutshell, they're not targeting Americans because we're the most free. It's because of the things we do, not because of the things we are.
RussianIvanov: Thanks for the valuable input to this thread. No really, your simple, yet timely post, proves a very important point here. If anyone is brainwashed, it's the people that viscerally react to this topic in the exact manner in which you reacted.
This is not a liberal argument, per se, so attacking it as such is ludicrous. This argument is about freedom, something many conservatives supposedly hold so dear. When you guys start throwing around labels to strengthen your side of the discussion, I think it really shows transparency. One last time, Cato is not a liberal think tank by any means. I can only paraphrase their arguments, it would be nice if people made an effort to read the articles if they're going to take the time post on this thread.
RussianIvanov: Thanks for the valuable input to this thread. No really, your simple, yet timely post, proves a very important point here. If anyone is brainwashed, it's the people that viscerally react to this topic in the exact manner in which you reacted.
To cut military spending would basically turn the military into a show, not a military. Look at the Russians, my home country. They make themselves look tough, but they are poorly trained and poorly equipped in reality. In uncertain international times like this, America's greatest asset is its military.
To cut military spending would basically turn the military into a show, not a military. Look at the Russians, my home country. They make themselves look tough, but they are poorly trained and poorly equipped in reality. In uncertain international times like this, America's greatest asset is its military.
That is an excellent point. Thank you for sharing that perspective.
The military has become an expensive, glorified jobs program. We are not any safer because of the wars started in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in fact, a great argument could be made that these wars have made us less safe. Terrorism is a real threat, but it's a threat that is best dealt with through law enforcement and intelligence tactics, not wide-scale military action.
At a time when the American people, led by the Tea Partiers, are very worried about out of control government spending, there seems to be little discussion about one of the biggest culprits: the military! It's time for Americans to wake up and stop regarding the issue as a third rail. There is so much wasteful spending, from $600 plungers, to ridiculous government contracts for shadow defense forces like Blackwater, that we cannot go on much longer like this.
Anyone interested in further reading, simply look up "Military-Industrial Complex," a term that was coined by departing President Eisenhower and something that has been written about ad nauseum in the decades since.
I agree to a realist cut of 5% righ away,escalating to a max of 10% within 4 years...
If one wants to make serious comments,he should advocate something around 5-10%,not...50%...
However,the truth is that we are winners...
And we can win every 3rd World level Army,like The Iraqi,under Hussein,or the Iranian,under Ahmadowhatever...
So,we can afford a 5-10% cut & still be invincible...
Someone should have warned me about what would happen to this thread once the extremist conservatives got a hold of it. The partisanship here is really showing. A lot of "our guys are the best and the other guys are all wrong." Things are never that black and white.
nonsenseguy: Just stop. You calling me brainwashed is absurd. My idea is outside of the box. Yours is the status quo. You go on and on about national defense and the Constitution and spending, and yadda, yadda, yadda. The Constitution talks about national defense, not national offense. I agree that our government has wasted a lot of money on a lot of things, and I'm sorry you disagree, but the military is one of those things.
doctorhugo: Forget the scare tactics. I remember September 11th, 2001 very well. And I remember how our country, led by our government, reacted completely inappropriately to the attack. The old "fighting them over there" line is ridiculous. As long as we defend our borders, we'll never be fighting them over here. There are a lot of "free" countries around the world. Of course it's very nuanced, but in a nutshell, they're not targeting Americans because we're the most free. It's because of the things we do, not because of the things we are.
RussianIvanov: Thanks for the valuable input to this thread. No really, your simple, yet timely post, proves a very important point here. If anyone is brainwashed, it's the people that viscerally react to this topic in the exact manner in which you reacted.
This is not a liberal argument, per se, so attacking it as such is ludicrous. This argument is about freedom, something many conservatives supposedly hold so dear. When you guys start throwing around labels to strengthen your side of the discussion, I think it really shows transparency. One last time, Cato is not a liberal think tank by any means. I can only paraphrase their arguments, it would be nice if people made an effort to read the articles if they're going to take the time post on this thread.
Great post. Neo cons still think we are attacked because "we are free." Well since the passage of the patriot act, I don't think that logic makes much sense any more.
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Clevelander17
. You see, this cavalier attitude about our security may be effecting your thinking on the "military budget". Just a thought. I could be wrong and you could be right . God forbid some terrorist makes it across our porous southern borders some day soon and reeks havoc upon us, but that's unlikely. I think we have signs identifying the border and an overstretched border patrol not allowed to shoot invaders. That should stop them huh! Jeesh..what was I thinkin'
