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Old 03-03-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,804 posts, read 7,398,431 times
Reputation: 2960

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfacedjenkins View Post
Couldn't agree with you more. I've spent a great deal of time reading economic journals published during the 30s and it's quite amazing how a lot of Hoover's/FDR's failed economic policies were left out of history books (like burning crop fields while vast amounts of the population were starving). Speaking of Hoover, he was the biggest INTERVENTIONIST of all, yet history books would have us believe he was laissez-faire, BS.

Ironically, the people who saw the bubble forming during the late 20s have all been stricken from the history books and we are now left with Keynes. Who, similar to the MSNBC pundits of today, saw no end in sight to the growth created by the lax policies of the US fed before the crash. The parallels to today's crisis are uncanny.
I wrote an article back in 08 titled "Stimulate like its 1929" and it shows how Hoover did massive intervention and stimulus. FDR actually accused Hoover of being a big government guy.

Here is just a bit.

“By the time Hoover left office in March of 1933 he had completed a massive amount of government stimulus and spending. He even raised taxes on the rich. Here are just a few of his programs.

Establish a Reconstruction Finance Corporation, which would use Treasury funds to lend to banks, industries, agricultural credit agencies, and local governments. Create a Home Loan Bank discount system to revive construction and employment. Expand government aid to Federal Land Banks.
Set up a Public Works Administration to coordinate and expand Federal public works. He pushed to end immigration, started a sharing-the-work program to save jobs and helped to “save” bankrupt railroads just to name a few.

Between 1929 and 1932 Federal Government spending increased by 50%. This would be like our 2008 budget of $2.9 trillion growing to $4.35 trillion in 2011, which would be massive stimulus. The problem President Hoover had was this spending started at the beginning of a debt induced deflationary cycle; it is very difficult to stop it with more debt. The GDP went down by 43% between 1929-1932, this would be the equivalent of our GDP going from $14.3 trillion in 2008 to 8.15 trillion in 2011. Revenue to the Federal Government dropped by 38%."
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:27 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,100,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smh1 View Post
China is leaping ahead even in green jobs. By 2020, it is estimated that China will get more power(as a % of total) from green sources than the US.

The one thing that can help is if the dollar crashes and equals the Indian rupee and Chinese Yuan. Then we can compete head to head. But the govts don't seem to care and I know quite a few people with graduate degrees forced to work in malls. Nothing wrong with that-except you still have a ton of student loans and that is not why you wen't to college for.

In today's market, where many jobs can be done in any country, it is looking very tough for us. But looking at history, no country/empire has ever stood the test of time to be number one for ever. Wether that be China, India, Egypt, Rome, Britain etc. Only thing is no one knows where we are in history!
China's money that hasn't had time to age yet, it's still just new money, nouveau riche.
New money hasn't had time to consolidate in good old boys clubs, thus doesn't really have the network and political leverage, doesn't yet broker the true power there. That is why China is still nimble and moves faster than US on energy and most other matters. Give it a few rich generations and things will slow down there as well. Of course, if the Chinese government doesn't catch on ahead of it and chops a few heads as a good measure. But eventually money will work its rightful ways there as well, that's the way that the world goes 'round.

Last edited by learningCA; 03-03-2010 at 02:01 PM..
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,804 posts, read 7,398,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learningCA View Post
China's money that hasn't had time to age yet, it's still just new money. New money hasn't had time to consolidate in good old boys clubs yet, thus doesn't really have political leverage, doesn't yet broker the true power there. That is why China is still nimble and moves faster than US on energy and most other matters. Give it a few rich generations and things will slow down there as well. Of course, if the Chinese government doesn't catch on ahead of it and chops a few heads as a good measure. But eventually it will happen there as well, we all know that.
Chinas demographics point down, India is the future.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:46 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,100,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Chinas demographics point down, India is the future.
Corruption in India is rampant and a long respected tradition, no worries there.
http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2009...r-the-corrupt/
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?pag...id=479&catID=1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4296438.stm
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,804 posts, read 7,398,431 times
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They have a massive middle class though. Plus they really embrace western entertainment and society. The corruption needs to change but China has that problem also.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:14 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,100,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
They have a massive middle class though. Plus they really embrace western entertainment and society. The corruption needs to change but China has that problem also.
I like traveling to India and I like its people. However, when one travels there the widespread poverty is what strikes one, not the presence of the middle class. I know that number wise, the middle class is a large number for India is a populous country at well over one billion people.
However, as a percentage, the middle class is at 20% while the poverty estimates are as high as 38%.
http://www.businessinsider.com/faber...e-india-2010-2
Poverty in India, Poverty rate in India, Population below poverty line, Poverty Reduction in India, Urban Poverty In India, Rural Poverty In India, Indian Problems (http://www.azadindia.org/social-issues/poverty-in-india.html - broken link)

Last edited by learningCA; 03-03-2010 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Albertville
4 posts, read 39,199 times
Reputation: 18
It is going to go up. The state government need money and they are going to go after businesses to get it. Those businesses will have to let people because of taxes.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:32 PM
 
694 posts, read 1,100,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobz View Post
It is going to go up. The state government need money and they are going to go after businesses to get it. Those businesses will have to let people because of taxes.
The states are doing their best to entice businesses, competing as hard as they can for every one of them. I know that California does it now. I don't buy this argument, hobz.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:09 PM
 
298 posts, read 824,239 times
Reputation: 165
Why major in something useless?
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:26 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,506,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avant-garde View Post
*I made a similar thread in the Work/Employment forum, but they began to tell their own personal anecdotes of what happened to them after the economic crash rather than answering the question.
Well if you are out of work for more than a year it is very dificult to reenter the work force. It is a problem with the habits that you get into.


Quote:
Originally Posted by avant-garde View Post
The government says that millions of new jobs will be made/recovered in the next few years... but what kind??
What jobs are there that will exist in the future that shouldn't already exist now?
The form of economic growth is hard to predict. IF we have a high savings rate then we will get back to making stuff and shipping it over seas. If we have a low savings rate then we are F*@(ed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avant-garde View Post
And if they can't get jobs, what's the plan? How do you take care of the 10%+ who are out of work and have no money?
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/912096-how-go-through-great-depression-95-a.html Here is a plan that I came up with.
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