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View Poll Results: should americans have national ID cards?
yes 47 37.30%
no 74 58.73%
not sure 5 3.97%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-11-2010, 09:41 AM
Status: "Fall is almost over!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,637 posts, read 59,710,798 times
Reputation: 19961

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On one of the Colorado forums, an English guy once asked if he should get a CO driver's license or use an international license. A fellow ex-pat Brit said he should go with the state lice. b/c it's used like a national ID card in the US. So perhaps we should get an ID card that really is an ID card, and just have to show our driver's licenses to the police when we are stopped. In other words, use the ID card to write/cash checks, go through security in an airport, etc.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: a nation in decline
10,293 posts, read 10,665,349 times
Reputation: 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
On one of the Colorado forums, an English guy once asked if he should get a CO driver's license or use an international license. A fellow ex-pat Brit said he should go with the state lice. b/c it's used like a national ID card in the US. So perhaps we should get an ID card that really is an ID card, and just have to show our driver's licenses to the police when we are stopped. In other words, use the ID card to write/cash checks, go through security in an airport, etc.
Would that serve as our passport to get us back into the US?
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:58 AM
Status: "Fall is almost over!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,637 posts, read 59,710,798 times
Reputation: 19961
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Would that serve as our passport to get us back into the US?
I don't think so, but I'm not the right one to ask. I think all intnl travelers have to have a passport. One item does not seem to replace the other.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Texas, Finally!
5,230 posts, read 7,686,430 times
Reputation: 2196
Having yet another form of ID isn't going to do a darned thing. I don't hear any of the usual "civil rights yahoos" complaining about this, except the ACLU, so I think people already know it's a smoke and mirrors tactic to give off the appearance that something constructive is being done and make it easier for people to swallow "amnesty" which will no doubt be shoved down our throats. People will find out how to counterfeit these IDs just as they steal SSNs. Why don't we enforce the laws WE ALREADY have with the EXISTING Ids instead of creating a whole new mess?
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:11 AM
 
3,651 posts, read 5,565,159 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
But you have a number, don't you? Don't try to make some disingenuous point here. You know what a social security number is for and what you cannot do without it.
I am not being "disingenuous." You're not distinguishing between a number and mandating some card. OK, you want to give me a "national ID number" and not require the card, fine. It doesn't accomplish a thing and only wastes time/money though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allydriver View Post
It is laughable that anyone think a national i.d. card is going to accomplish anything different than the excisting immigration laws that are already ignored.
In the end, it will just create another bureaucracy.
Exactly.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Illegal aliens are running around because of bad border security and companies that hire these people for menial labor.
...which a "national ID card" would not change in the least.

Quote:
Sure, enforcement of current laws is a big portion of the problem, but the lack of requirement for an ID makes it SO much easier for these companies to turn a blind eye and feign ignorance....
Good grief

If there's a lack of requirement for ID, then again ANOTHER ID WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. If you DO require ID, then you can simply require any one of the various IDs we already have.

Quote:
We could certainly improve through what you say, but I think a full implementation of a national ID would be easier.
So giving us yet another number, new cards, new procedures (etc etc) is easier than just better use/enforcement of what we already have? Lost me there.

Quote:
I'll take these both together: So you admit that the government can essentially watch you whenever they want, but you're frightened that the implementation of a national ID might enable the government to watch you whenever they want.....
No. I'm quite sure they don't have a camera crew hiding nearby or satellites poised over my head zooming in.

Again, if you don't get the inherent danger of having total control/access to basically a person's whole life through ONE number, there's probably no point trying to explain it. It isn't about "watching."


Quote:
You have a social security number. You have a driver's license. Just combine the two,
No thanks.


Quote:
*FYI, 88% of driving-age Americans have a driver's license. They don't seem too SCARED of Big Brother, do they?
And this is relevant because.......

PS that is but one form of identification.


Quote:
Hey, I'm betting even YOU have a driver's license, eh? What do YOU do when a cop asks for your identification? "No sir, this is AMERICA!!! I dont have to show you SH!+ !!!!
And actually unless I am breaking the law or he has "reasonable cause," you're right - I DON'T have to "show him sh**."

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Old 03-11-2010, 10:22 AM
 
3,651 posts, read 5,565,159 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Oh bunk!!! Trying to compare an ID Card to your Orwellian/Nazi nightmare.
It's a valid comparison as it would be the next logical progression - same logic, same line of reasoning, only a question of degree. The same arguments you are making for making things "easier," "more convenient," "a better way to identify" (etc etc) can just as easily be made there. That was the point.

But rather than address it, you get cute and tap dance around it.....a glaring sign of someone who is unwilling/unable to debate the issue or even consider that. Don't know if that's intellectual dishonesty or you truly just don't get it - the latter being a lot worse, actually, as that's exactly how these things get pushed on us...insidiously, a little bit at a time, and with people rationalizing/pretending how it's better and there's no danger in such consolidation of power. Orwellian indeed.

I'm done w/this as well.

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Old 03-11-2010, 10:33 AM
 
15,076 posts, read 5,321,256 times
Reputation: 6306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't think so, but I'm not the right one to ask. I think all intnl travelers have to have a passport. One item does not seem to replace the other.
Passports are a different kettle of fish - they're more targeted at the outside world - "we, the US, claim the holder as a citizen" kind of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobolt View Post
Having yet another form of ID isn't going to do a darned thing. People will find out how to counterfeit these IDs just as they steal SSNs. Why don't we enforce the laws WE ARLREADY have with the EXISTING Ids instead of creating a whole new mess?
The existing IDs don't do the job. SS cards are ridiculously easy to fake, and employers have no way to match the guy in front of them with the SS number.

Driver's licenses are worthless for employment - I had one months before my employment authorization went through. Hundreds of thousands of legally unemployable people have a driver's license.

The Green card does a pretty thorough job, though - it's holographed and microchipped and magnet-striped seven different ways, I had hours of entertainment just admiring all the details. (Micro holographs of all 50 state flags? Sweet!) Can it be faked? Sure. But something like it raises the bar quite a bit.

If you wish to enforce the laws against employing people with no work authorization, you have to provide a mechanism for employers to check prospective employees. There's no feasible way to provide negative identification, it has to be a positive list to check against. And that means identifying the true-blue US citizen (or resident alien) who can work. That's the problem, and positive ID, through whatever mechanism, is one way of solving it. There's not an abundance of alternatives.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Location: a nation in decline
10,293 posts, read 10,665,349 times
Reputation: 3922
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobolt View Post
Having yet another form of ID isn't going to do a darned thing. I don't hear any of the usual "civil rights yahoos" complaining about this, except the ACLU, so I think people already know it's a smoke and mirrors tactic to give off the appearance that something constructive is being done and make it easier for people to swallow "amnesty" which will no doubt be shoved down our throats. People will find out how to counterfeit these IDs just as they steal SSNs. Why don't we enforce the laws WE ALREADY have with the EXISTING Ids instead of creating a whole new mess?
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,197 posts, read 11,311,391 times
Reputation: 6369
I have no real issue with the idea of a national ID card. We are half way there with SS cards anyway. Having served in the Navy I had a military ID that was acceptable anywhere I went in the USA and most foreign countries I visited. It is a convenience.
I would really like a national drivers license instead. Fed dollars pay for most road maintenance already. This too would make life easier if your someone who needs to move a lot do to needs of their work.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:21 AM
 
13,853 posts, read 5,455,778 times
Reputation: 6270
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueIsraelite View Post
Hell no! If they pass it then I guess only outlaws won't have it so I will become an outlaw ain't no way I am giving the government even more of my freedom.

Agreed. I would respectfully decline the offer.
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