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I believe we have a moral responsibility to help others (that is why I give to charity). We do NOT have a legal obligation. There is a huge difference between a moral responsibility and a political/legal obligation.
I also DO have a friend who was recently in such a situation. He ended up with about $45,000 in medical bills. We took up a collection/donations, we ran pledge drives in the community and got his bills down to $22,000. Now he is on a monthly payment schedule, as that is an amount he could handle.
I do want to help people who need help with medical bills. I just don't think it is the governments responsibility (or right for that matter) to mandate laws/taxes/social programs on such things.
Does that make sense? Again - moral vs legal obligations. Do you understand the importance of drawing a line between those two things?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
Sorry, I wasn't clear...I didn't mean all 19 year olds, just the one I was talking to.
A lot has happened to me since I started supporting myself financially at 18.
Again, since you avoided my second question I will ask it - do you know the difference between a moral and legal obligation?
We agree that people have a moral obligation to help others, but I do not think we have a legal one. Please address this.
I don't "get my kicks" from bragging. I was trying to explain a point, which apparently you missed completely.
You say there needs to be a system in place - on what grounds? What is the justification for what you are saying, beyond you 'feeling bad' for them? Laws and policies should be based on facts, not emotions.
And furthermore, we have a lack of affordable health care because of a lack of competition in the insurance industry. If we did away with the excessive governmenal regulation, we would have more private sector cometition which would in turn lower prices. When the government tries to regulate a free market economy everyone loses, as we have clearly seen in the past few years!
I'm not sure what your point was, you're right about that.
The "grounds" for a system has to do with the moral responsibility. That's what we do as a humane community. We take care of each other.
Your views on the insurance industry are naive. There's plenty of competition, most all of it one bad against another bad. W/O govt. regulation, insurers would sell policies that would never pay out. They'd always figure out a way for you, the individual, not to qualify. Government regualtion has come about because of the excesses of unfettered capitalism, not the other way around.
Please read this article and then continue to tell the average worker in this country that health care reform is unnecessary.
'My jaw hit the floor'
About six months after his emergency operation, Miller was scheduled to return to St. John Macomb-Oakland to have his colostomy surgically closed so he didn't have to use a colostomy bag.
But on the morning of the scheduled surgery -- Jan. 6, 2009 -- Miller and his mother arrived at the hospital only to be told at check-in that the operation couldn't be performed because of his outstanding balance.
Miller was handed a purple piece of paper with a balance that read: $31,910,348. He was later informed the total was an error. The balance should have read: $319,103.48.
From The Detroit News: Sick, uninsured and in debt: One man's health care crisis | detnews.com | The Detroit News (http://detnews.com/article/20100315/LIFESTYLE03/3150338/Sick--uninsured-and-in-debt--One-man-s-health-care-crisis#ixzz0iFP9r4Nu - broken link)
Many health issues, ESPECIALLY digestive issues are directly related to diet. The article does not go into a lot of detail about what his particular condition was, but I would bet a lot of money that it was something that could have been prevented or treated by a change in diet. I do not think that it is fair to ask OTHER PEOPLE to foot the bill for someone who does not take care of themselves and that results in some kind of illness or disorder. Again, I do not have all the details, but I am surmising.
Many health issues, ESPECIALLY digestive issues are directly related to diet. The article does not go into a lot of detail about what his particular condition was, but I would bet a lot of money that it was something that could have been prevented or treated by a change in diet. I do not think that it is fair to ask OTHER PEOPLE to foot the bill for someone who does not take care of themselves and that results in some kind of illness or disorder. Again, I do not have all the details, but I am surmising.
20yrsinBranson
You're right about one thing: you don't have all the details. Many times a temporary colostomy has to be performed to take care of some situation. I am sure this man's doctors were aware of what other treatments could be done, and chose the temporary colostomy. To blame the patient, without knowing anything about the situation, is inappropriate.
I'm not sure what your point was, you're right about that.
The "grounds" for a system has to do with the moral responsibility. That's what we do as a humane community. We take care of each other.
Your views on the insurance industry are naive. There's plenty of competition, most all of it one bad against another bad. W/O govt. regulation, insurers would sell policies that would never pay out. They'd always figure out a way for you, the individual, not to qualify. Government regualtion has come about because of the excesses of unfettered capitalism, not the other way around.
Your knowledge of the basics of a free market business environment seems limited.
If insurance companies didn't pay out, they would go out of business, making way for newer, more efficient companies. Regulation props up poorly managed/inefficient companies and prevents startups from challenging them as they should. Look at the startups and dramatic swings of new companies in unregulated markets (technology and retail to name a few industries). Poor products/services quickly turn a company unprofitable, as there are always young upstart companies challenging the status quo. That simply does not happen with the insurance industry due to regulation.
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
If you don't like the state of an insurance company, start a boycott/protest against it. Work on a business plan to start something new, do SOMETHING instead of whining that Washington DC isn't taking care of you.
You're right about one thing: you don't have all the details. Many times a temporary colostomy has to be performed to take care of some situation. I am sure this man's doctors were aware of what other treatments could be done, and chose the temporary colostomy. To blame the patient, without knowing anything about the situation, is inappropriate.
The doctors are going to recommend the treatment that makes them the most money regardless of alternatives that might be available. You're very naive.
The doctors are going to recommend the treatment that makes them the most money regardless of alternatives that might be available. You're very naive.
20yrsinBranson
Gosh, two people in a row calling me naive!
hsnq, unfettered capitalism didn't work. That's why we have regulations.
20yrsinBranson, I know you're into all sorts of "alternative" medicine. I stand by what I said, that the docs did the temp. colostomy well aware of the treatment alternatives, and they chose the best option for that patient.
hsnq, unfettered capitalism didn't work. That's why we have regulations.
20yrsinBranson, I know you're into all sorts of "alternative" medicine. I stand by what I said, that the docs did the temp. colostomy well aware of the treatment alternatives, and they chose the best option for that patient.
Katiana - how do we know that? We haven't given unfettered capitalism a chance.
LOL! We had it for a few millenia. There have always been "snake-oil salesmen".
So again, no proof? It seems all of your posts rely on either speculation or emotions to drive a point home. I am still waiting for facts...
And Katiana, please respond to the other points I made in my post. Choosing to ignore valid points in a debate makes me take you a lot less seriously.
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