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China is being protectionist with their internal program (bids go to their own home companies first) but we enact one small tariff (on tires from China) and they scream bloody murder.
So other countries can protect their own business but we can't ?
There are 3 doctors jobs, 1 accountant job, and 3 garbage man jobs. This represents the 49.9 percent of jobs above median wage, the 1 median wage job, and the 49.9 percent below.
If 7 people trained to be a doctor, 3 would get the doctors jobs, and the other FOUR would have to take jobs BELOW the doctor job, in fact, 3 of them would be garbage men. This is despite being qualified to do a great deal more then drive a garbage truck.
Now, if one of those garbage men got another degree, at their own expense, he may bump one of those 3 doctors, however, that bumped doctor is only going to be able to get that open garbage man job.
Do you get it?
You imply a completely static economy. That growth our economy has every year means jobs are created to go with it. The reason we can fill those jobs is because our population increases.
So in your senario (and as is common in life), the garbage man goes and gets a degree, two positions for that degree opened up (one retiree, one economic growth). So now this is an opening for an accountant (former garbage man took the other opening) and an opening for the garbage positon.
Your assertions are wrong as we have a growing economy and population. If that changes, or if we were talking about Germany and not the US, your logic may hold more weight.
They are filling some demand, however, there are only so many jobs that are valuable in their own right to another man. There simply wouldnt be enough demand for all those jobs to gainfully employ every working person in those jobs.
Still, there is no rule that one must have a "job". If a "job" does not provide what an "employee" wants that person is free to take a different "job" or actually produce something themselves. Whining about it does not change reality or nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
The only reason some people are able to make a living, say, as a caterer or a lawn care person, is because EVERY ONE isnt doing it. There are other people who are medical assistants, corporate accountants, salesmen, etc, who are cogs in machines.
First, if there are no "open" slots in a particular service, there is nothing from stopping you from "stealing" one of those occupied positions by doing it better or cheaper.
Second, any desire that your fellow man has can be filled. If a person is capapable to use one's mind, one can "create" a new "need" to fill. Unless you believe that all of your neighbors have already satisfied their every need. So back to reality, you can provide value to your fellow man that is limited only by your own imagination, ability, and effort. There are more "businesses" that need to be created than there are in existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
This is where I disagree. The "value" of the tool is whatever purpose it serves. The value of a hammer is the number of nails it nails, and projects it helps you to finish, not the $5 you pay for it at the store.
We can disagree, no problem. I just say that if someone doesn't think that the hammer is worth $5 he won't buy it. It is totally dependent on the user what the tool's value is to HIM. Just because someone wants to charge $5 for the hammer does not mean that a potential user of that tool will automatically pay for that. The "value" of the tool is totally subjective upon the potential user's judgement in what is in his interest not what the hammer thinks it is worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
The "value" of a person is the job they complete, the wage you pay them is some fabricated figure you pulled out of your ass that you hope theyll provide that value in exchange for. If you were able to successfully get them to accept some wage less then their value, you get to steal that difference as profit.
Well that figure "pulled out of" one's behind is precisely the value to the one with the behind, NOT the person groveling at his feet because he is unable to produce value on his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
You dont deserve for the fish to leap in your mouth, but you do deserve to have just as much chance of catching that fish as any one else.
What crime is committed by someone that is faster, smarter, more talented, more willing to expend effort, take chances? Do we mandate restrictions on the talents of others? Do we simply punish those who are better at something out of mere jealousy and greed? Do we reward failed behavior and ideas so that it can flourish anyway?
If someone did not know how to build a house with the trees around him, should the person who does be forced to build it for him like a personal slave?
I still am missing the overall point here though. By what right does anyone have to demand others to serve their interest? The "fairness" and "equality" demanded by collectivists are really just "theft" and "discrimination" in reality. That is why it is okay in Amerika to hate and punish the successful and reward the unsuccessful through arbitrary force.
If people want charity they have to ask for it, not DEMAND it with the use of government force. It destroys completely the whole "victim" costume and shows that they are just average thugs.
Ok, I think youve finally grabbed the theory that there isnt room for every one in good jobs.
Change to what? Let me try to put this in simple terms
There are 3 doctors jobs, 1 accountant job, and 3 garbage man jobs. This represents the 49.9 percent of jobs above median wage, the 1 median wage job, and the 49.9 percent below.
If 7 people trained to be a doctor, 3 would get the doctors jobs, and the other FOUR would have to take jobs BELOW the doctor job, in fact, 3 of them would be garbage men. This is despite being qualified to do a great deal more then drive a garbage truck.
Now, if one of those garbage men got another degree, at their own expense, he may bump one of those 3 doctors, however, that bumped doctor is only going to be able to get that open garbage man job.
Do you get it?
1. If you have even paid attention to "my world", I do not believe in welfare at all. Stop insinuating that I advocate some sort of nanny state welfare capitalism.
2. By you getting a job that does pay your bills, somebody ELSE cannot get that job.
If they dont want to starve, yeah they are. Welfare and illegal activity, currently keeps a great deal of people out of the low end jobs, but if you erased all of that, do the math.
There are more people that need jobs, then there are jobs. That means someone MUST flip burgers or clean toilets. Period.
Again, I despise welfare.......My bag is advocating a system that will allow everyone to be a productive member of society, and not require a welfare safety net for the slave class.
Apparently, I'm not getting your "bag" at all. Are you advocating communism. You seem to want everyone to share the load and the pay.
Question: if you're trained to be a doctor, but don't work as a doctor, are you still a doctor? I consider your job title something you're actually working at.
The reality is that by wanting your basic needs met, but by others and not yourself, is the ultimate in selfishness and arrogance.
We live in a society though that unless you have your own business you have to rely on someone else to provide it for you that is how our society is set up There is nothing selfish about wanting wanting enough to have food and shelter and not end up homeless.
The same principle applies. EVERY ONE cannot have a better job in an economy that relies on crappy service jobs. The median income for all people with a full time job is 42k. Not even addressing the fact that part time jobs make up such a huge percent of the economy, and the unemployed arent even counted for this, that means that a full half of all people make less then 42k a year. Those jobs will be filled by someone, and at that wage. It doesnt matter how qualified the workers at that level are, the wage will not change.
Only half of all of us that have full time employment can expect to make more then 42k. I dont care how educated, or how trained the population is. In fact, the US ALREADY has a huge problem with underemployment. Our secretaries, burger flippers, cashiers, and grass mowers increasingly have bachelors degrees or higher. That is evidence that the economy is not changing to meet our abilities, rather, we are all endlessly, at our own expense, overqualifying and overeducating ourselves for the available jobs, and employers are loving it. There is nothing more satisfying to an employer then to be able to pay an MBA 40k a year.
The problem is - the population still consists of smarter than average, average, and less smarter than average people -- all should be able to have some kind of job and none should expect to live much over his/her means.
Education doesn't do much to change the IQ one is born with and it doesn't do much about common sense.
You can try to train 7 doctors, but those with IQs of 70 are not going to make it and will simply drop out, those with IQs of 80 or 90 will switch over to something like law school and become politicians. Those with IQs of 100 or above will become doctors - but if too many become doctors, they will compete for patients and won't be so rich.
Still, there is no rule that one must have a "job". If a "job" does not provide what an "employee" wants that person is free to take a different "job" or actually produce something themselves. Whining about it does not change reality or nature.
You are assuming there a bunch of better paying jobs that are right there for people to take but that is not the truth. Right now people are struggling to find any job let alone a job that pays better.
The question is..who gets to determine what a liveable wage is
Great question, right now it is multiple people. Those that set food prices, rent prices, mortgage rates, gas prices, hourly wages for mechanics, health insurance companies, big pharm, all have influence in the matter of what cost of living is and hence, what a liveable wage is.
I believe it should be set on a local basis, by local governments, but they are all too weak to really do anything effective.
Still, there is no rule that one must have a "job". If a "job" does not provide what an "employee" wants that person is free to take a different "job" or actually produce something themselves. Whining about it does not change reality or nature.
You are assuming there a bunch of better paying jobs that are right there for people to take but that is not the truth. Right now people are struggling to find any job let alone a job that pays better.
Wonderful how unemployment helps to suppress wages and effectively restrict the choices that workers can make. If you aren't making enough, too bad, what are you going to do about it? If you want to go to night classes, and better yourself and gain skills, but you can't get your hours changed, to bad what are you going to do about it?
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