What is it with Christian's these days?

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Let me ask another, perhaps more relevent question:

When a Christian denomination takes a public stance on a political issue, does it make you more, or less likely to support or oppose that issue?

For instance, when the Southern Baptist Convention issues a statement in opposition to same-sex marriage, does their stance make you more, or less likely to adopt their position? Is it relative at all?

People are going to do what people are going to do. Doesn't matter if they are in the church or out of the church.

I check my heart at the alter for Christ.

[stillkit]

Originally Posted by momonkey

Keeping in mind that the Founders held that our rights came form God and not men, it's difficult to imagine they didn't foresee religious organizations working to hold government accountable to the requirements of the Constitution.

Maybe so, but I suspect they wouldn't much care for religious oranizations working to hold the government accountable to the requirements of the Bible, which is precisely what the Evangelical's seem to want.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Frankie117

I was a member of an evangelical Southern Baptist church for over a decade, and not once did politics come up during a sermon, Sunday school, or at any other point. In fact, the church had a policy of leaving politics at the door. The way people have been taking recently, you would think every church in the country constantly talks about gays, abortion, Obama, etc.

and we were menbers of a pretty leftist religion for years: never did we hear our pastor (rector, whatever) say much about rights period until we moved here. We did have one that almost told us how to vote, if you read between the lines you could have heard him say, go left young man, go left. We have since left that church..Other than that one time we have never even known how our clergy felt politically or about social issues unless we have become good friends with him or her.

Nita

[WilliamSmyth]

The only time I would object to a minister preaching about politics from the pulpit is if they claimed that I must support a particular candidate or law to be a good Christian. I don't mind them preaching about poverty and my obligations as a Christian to address it. I think it is acceptable for them to preach about how a particular law may be making poverty worse. But if they tell me that I must support a particular law that addresses poverty or vote for a particular candidate because this is required to be a good Christian then I believe they have gone to far.

In the United Church of Christ the national leaders speak to the individual congregations and members and not for the individual congregations and members. Sometimes the leaders of the denomination forget this, sometimes the reports about the denomination don't understand this distinction. So when the General Synod of the UCC passed support for marriage equality the individual congregations and members of the UCC were under no obligation to follow suit. Many did, but not all. At no point would it have been acceptable for a minister to say you must support the resolution or you are not a Christian.

This thread also reminded me of Obama's 2006 speech "Call to Renewal" much of which I agree with.

Obama Speech - “'Call to Renewal” Keynote Address - Complete Text[/SIZE][SIZE=3]
.....
For one, they need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland who didn't want the established churches to impose their views on folks who were getting happy out in the fields and teaching the scripture to slaves. It was the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religious, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith as they understood it.
.....
This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.
......
Finally, any reconciliation between faith and democratic pluralism requires some sense of proportion. This goes for both sides.
]Even those who claim the Bible's inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages - the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ's divinity - are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.
The American people intuitively understand this, which is why the majority of Catholics practice birth control and some of those opposed to gay marriage nevertheless are opposed to a Constitutional amendment to ban it. Religious leadership need not accept such wisdom in counseling their flocks, but they should recognize this wisdom in their politics.

[jskin]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Let me ask another, perhaps more relevent question:

When a Christian denomination takes a public stance on a political issue, does it make you more, or less likely to support or oppose that issue?

For instance, when the Southern Baptist Convention issues a statement in opposition to same-sex marriage, does their stance make you more, or less likely to adopt their position? Is it relative at all?

Where I stand on any issue political or otherwise comes from my belief in the Bible. No one tells me what to think. No church defines me. I believe that everyone is accountable for reading, knowing and living the scriptures to the best of their ability. One thing often overlooked by Christians is Christ's statements on judgement. One thing people often forget is that all sin is equal and all of us have sinned and will continue to do so as we are human. It is only God's grace and Jesus' sacifice that saves us. We should offer the same compassion to others that we have been given.

Now with that being said, I do often think that our government is trying to take the place of the church in our lives. It is the church that should help those in need. That is my political view based on my religious viewpoint. Make sense?

[mateo45]

Hey, what's the big deal.... God's a Right Wing Republican, didn't y'all know (and Obama was just His way of punishing the GOP for their wickedness)!

Seriously, I think alot of the "disconnect" between Christ's teachings and "some" of His followers, is that many of them use dogma like "being born again" and "embracing Jesus as your personal Savior" as a sort of free pass, thinking "now I'm Saved". So then they feel free to just ignore or pay lip-service to the rest of it (like "turn the other cheek", "love thy neighbor", "judge not lest ye be judged", etc.).

[keithhtt]

I didn't bother reading the 7 pages of this thread . I only want to comment on the first posting . You said you wanted to post this here to get non-Christians opinions. Why do you assume we are non-Christians. Aside from that I don't have enough time to explain and debate why so many Christians are conservative. I'm just glad that we are.

[ambient]

Originally Posted by stillkit

(I put this here, rather than in the Christian forums, because I'd like to hear what non-Christian's have to say on the matter.)

What is it with Christian's these days? What are they afraid of?

Last night, I tried to watch the latest Hal Lindsey program and could only stomach about half of it. Generally, I like ol' Hal and, though he mumbles a lot because of not using a script, his Bible prophesy program is usually pretty interesting. Last night, however, he deviated from his regular programming and spent all the time I watched him talking about the evil, socialist health care reform passed by the Congress and warning us about Obama. I don't know if he tried to tie that into prophesy or not, but I couldn't help but wonder, "What has this got to do with the Gospel and why are you doing it?" I have the same thought every time I see a preacher or Christian leader taking sides in the politics of the day. Why, a few weeks ago, even Jack Van Impe clearly implied that Obama might be the anti-Christ!

Christian programming and other media are full of such things. It's as if all of organized Christianity has suddenly gone stark raving mad, plunging off into the deep end of fear and partisan politics, to the detriment of spreading the Gospel. Suddenly, instead of going what the Lord told us to do (Go ye therefore into all the world...), we've become water-carriers for the Republican Party, spreading their message of hysterical fear of the new administration. The line between religion and politics has now become so blurred, so indistinct, that far too many Christian's can't tell the difference any more. When political opposition rises to the level of claiming it's God's Will, when Jesus Christ is co-opted into a certain political stance, the Good News of Salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ gets lost in the noise. Worse, it drives people AWAY from the Truth of Jesus because any time we Christian's take a political stance, we immediately alienate everyone on the other side of the issue and witnessing to them becomes a practical impossibility. Instead of being welcomed by them as keepers of the Faith, of loving followers of Christ concerned for their eternal souls, we're seen as hateful, political hacks who aren't worth listening to.

Is this what Christ told us to do? Where in Scripture does He say for us to involve Him in politics? By what authority do we dare drag His name into ANY political party? I can't find it, yet it's happening every day.

I understand the desire to stand up for what is right, but is this how we should be doing it? If it damages the Message, of what practical purpose is it in light of what Jesus told us to do? Which is more important to us? "Saving" America, or seeing the lost get saved? Right now, I fear the answer is the former and, sadly, I fear my position is the minority one within Christianity.

I wonder if this isn't the reason our churches are empty.

As far as I can tell, Christians in this country have always tended to behave this way.

It's probably because the ones who are more likely to be unquestioningly religious are less educated rural people...and they also are more likely to be narrow-minded and fearful of anything other than their status quo, which is all they have ever known and seen. Hence, religion, patriotism, and the status quo politics become linked in their skulls as "the way it has to be". They are thus more susceptible to manipulation by any unscrupulous person with a status quo political agenda who claims to be religious and have God on their speed-dial, or whatever.

Is this elitist of me to say? Hell yes it is. I don't discount these peoples' right to live their lives however they want (you can be as "born again" as you want, so long as you don't get in my way with it), but I'm going to call out the situation for exactly what it is.

As an aside, judging from what I've read about him, I'm sure Jesus would support no-holds-barred "survival of the fittest"-style capitalism.

[chielgirl]

They all need to lose their tax status as soon as they discuss the political process in the US.
Period.