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Old 04-04-2010, 11:50 PM
 
411 posts, read 419,050 times
Reputation: 115

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We hear time and time again: what would the founding fathers have thought of this or that, the answer is, who cares!!!!!, they had their time and it is long gone, they lived in a very different time, when our country was still quite primitive, they were flawed individuals, just like the ones we have today, some were slave owners, and had slave mistresses, the human family has developed faster in the past 200 years than in the previous 2000 years, only basic political precepts remain valid, we have to live in the present with new ideas, otherwise we'll become obsolete. The Republicans have a big dilemma; How to cling to old ideas while attracting
the voters and leaders of the future, it seems like a losing battle.....
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:54 PM
 
29,986 posts, read 37,955,807 times
Reputation: 12782
You wish. Excuse me if I don't take seriously a pro-amnesty supporter's post encouraging the US Constitution be chucked out the window as anything other than a means to achieve a personal agenda.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:16 AM
 
Location: California
31,192 posts, read 34,368,598 times
Reputation: 26844
I sort of agree. I don't hear people saying to "chuck the Constitution out the window" but seriously I don't know or care what any FOUNDING FATHERS would think about anything that effects my life today. We have in place a plan to interpret the Constitution to apply to our society, thats all we get. Those FOUNDING FATHERS wouldn't have a clue how to deal with some of the issues facing us today.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:22 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,243,977 times
Reputation: 1336
Who cares? Not many. That is why we are now, and have been for over a century, continually accelerating to our own demise, into the worldwide system of oppression and human slavery that is collectivism.

The State has only one enemy...man.

Man has only one enemy...the State.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 5,103,103 times
Reputation: 2150
Keep in mind a lot of these people now citing the founding fathers are getting their views from a massive revisionist named Beck. Most, much like Palin, probably can't name more than a few unless Beck said their name. I know if they could Hamilton and Franklin would spit in the face of Beck for soiling their name.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:30 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,243,977 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
I know if they could Hamilton and Franklin would spit in the face of Beck for soiling their name.
They would spit in the face of every President since Wilson too.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Long Beach
2,348 posts, read 2,470,308 times
Reputation: 918
How can some say or desire to remove the good names of our Founding Fathers? They had great vision and the passion and the humilty and the gaul to fight an Empire and win, to set forth in the world a new type of nation. One governed through the consent of the citizenry. What a hopeful and profound act they undertook, for hundreds of millions of people. People from every continent came here to make a life, to escape all types of persecution of the Old World.

They created a nation built of simple English Common law. The rights of man to life, liberty and happiness. The avoidance of religion to offset the great troubles that had plagued Europe for a millenium.

We are but the legacy of these men and women. They gave us the gift to govern ourselves, for our own benefit and the benefits of our neighbors. For teh first time in history, men and women took into their own hands their own destiny. We are but a product of those efforts.

The right-wing and meny religious conservatives are doomed to NEVER understand that.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:39 AM
 
2,127 posts, read 1,717,361 times
Reputation: 1008
There's a difference between respecting the founding fathers and understanding their actions in the social and historical context it requires and the outrageous lionizing and apotheosizing that the Right does. They were fallible men, several (Jefferson) with some severe flaws, and we would do well to show more caution in just casually evoking what we think "they would do", since obviously we live in a far different world.

What would Ben Franklin do? and What would Alexander Hamilton do? have become the new What would Jesus do?, and it has been to the detriment of our political discourse.
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
31,557 posts, read 20,783,754 times
Reputation: 8880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latin King View Post
We hear time and time again: what would the founding fathers have thought of this or that, the answer is, who cares!!!!!, they had their time and it is long gone, they lived in a very different time, when our country was still quite primitive, they were flawed individuals, just like the ones we have today, some were slave owners, and had slave mistresses, the human family has developed faster in the past 200 years than in the previous 2000 years, only basic political precepts remain valid, we have to live in the present with new ideas, otherwise we'll become obsolete. The Republicans have a big dilemma; How to cling to old ideas while attracting
the voters and leaders of the future, it seems like a losing battle.....



Nonsense!

The same Founders who owned slaves and fathered children with slave mistresses created a constitutional form of government and a Bill of Rights so incompatible with slavery that it forced the end of the practice.

The flawed individuals who created the Constitution understood they and all people were flawed. To control the excesses produced by those flaws, they affirmed that our fundamental rights came from God and that everyone was created equal by God, and since these rights were granted by God, no human may take them away.

No alternative exist to our system that provides the same level of freedom, self-determination and dignity for the ordinary citizen. The socialist state comes at a price, and when the entire cost of the loss of freedom is applied to the benefits of the nanny state, the cost is too high for people who have known personal autonomy.

Furthermore, you misunderstand the source of political change in America. Those who hold office can never impose change from the top down if the people are unwilling to accept it. We have just witnessed one of the greatest efforts in our history to force unwanted change onto the citizens. The result is an even greater backlash from the people. Even liberal commentators have conceded the government has picked a fight with the voters it can only lose.
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:34 AM
 
Location: CA
258 posts, read 396,880 times
Reputation: 129
[quote=momonkey;13597790]Nonsense!

The same Founders who owned slaves and fathered children with slave mistresses created a constitutional form of government and a Bill of Rights so incompatible with slavery that it forced the end of the practice.

The flawed individuals who created the Constitution understood they and all people were flawed. To control the excesses produced by those flaws, they affirmed that our fundamental rights came from God and that everyone was created equal by God, and since these rights were granted by God, no human may take them away.


Wow! Profoundly Stated!!!
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