Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The fallacy of the Lost Cause excuse that the Brits and the North "did it too" is that by 1850 slavery had been outlawed in Great Britain and was virtually non existent in the North. While both the North and the British had "done it too" both had recognized the moral repugnance of slavery and moved to eliminate it. The South had to the conquered to rid it of slavery.
The fallacy of the Lost Cause excuse that the Brits and the North "did it too" is that by 1850 slavery had been outlawed in Great Britain and was virtually non existent in the North. While both the North and the British had "done it too" both had recognized the moral repugnance of slavery and moved to eliminate it. The South had to the conquered to rid it of slavery.
Yes, the North didn't have slaves in 1850, they had "apprentices for life". Slavery was never as widespread in the North because, hmmm, where were those big old agricultural plantation in the North? How many times can you fit the entire state of Massachusetts into Georgia? How many times could you fit the state of Rhode Island into the King Ranch of Texas?
It wasn't that the North and the British had "done it, too", it was that the North and the British had profited tremendously from doing it, and then were able to eliminate it in their own backyards quite easily and cheaply. They'd only been the slave dealers, not the consumers.
And the South wasn't the moral wasteland that history depicts. There were Southerners that wanted to abolish slaverly. But they didn't want to do it at the cost of the entire economy. It's funny how the North felt that slavery was morally repugnant, but Northern bankers had not qualms about loaning money based on slaves as collateral. It's funny how the North felt that slavery was so offensive, but the Northern insurance companies were okay with holding their noses as they wrote insurance policies for slaves. It's funny how none of those descendants of ship merchants from the North, who inherited large fortunes that they invested in paper mills and textile factories, and none of those descendants would admit that any part of those fortunes came from the slave trade. And yet it wasn't Southern ships that were laden with slaves from Africa. Those ships were owned and operated by Northerners. NOT Southerners. The fortunes made off of slavery were made by Northerners. As anyone can tell you, in an agrarian economy, like the South, the wealth is in the land, not in banks. The South was land rich, capital poor. The North was just the opposite.
If the North could have proposed a way to end slavery that wouldn't have cast the South into an economic depression that would have made the Great Depression look like a walk in the park, then maybe war would have been avoided. But such propositions had been introduced to Congress, a systematic, gradual abolition with financial compensation to slave owners who freed their slaves, and the Northern legislators said no. The North had made fortunes from the slave trade, and they'd been able to gradually abolish it in their own states, but when they had the power, they weren't prepared to follow a similar path in the South. And they had the power to force the South, which is why the South tried to remove itself from the Union. I don't think that was the smart thing to do, or a good thing to do, but I can understand what the South was trying to do. They were damned if they did, and damned if they didn't. And either way resulted in economic ruin.
The fallacy of the Lost Cause excuse that the Brits and the North "did it too" is that by 1850 slavery had been outlawed in Great Britain and was virtually non existent in the North. While both the North and the British had "done it too" both had recognized the moral repugnance of slavery and moved to eliminate it.
Yeah, I know the old lame justification. Goes something like: Well, the North eliminated slavery first so, by extension, it is off limits to bring it up. Geez.
How about the Northern slave trade? It continued in some form or fashion long after slavery was abolished in those states. Lots of money made. Gosh, I just LOVE posting these links:
The South had to the conquered to rid it of slavery.
That was a result of the War, not by original design on the part of the North. If "freeing the slaves" had been the objective of the northern war effort, there would have never been a war at all.
Yeah, I know the old lame justification. Goes something like: Well, the North eliminated slavery first so, by extension, it is off limits to bring it up. Geez.
How about the Northern slave trade? It continued in some form or fashion long after slavery was abolished in those states. Lots of money made. Gosh, I just LOVE posting these links:
That was a result of the War, not by original design on the part of the North. If "freeing the slaves" had been the objective of the northern war effort, there would have never been a war at all.
Thanks for a repeat of the old, tired Lost Cause propaganda. It's false.
i would say considering the amount of money jobs and kow towing that has occurred that the american debt for slavery has been paid. you are right slavery was wrong. but had nothing to do with the civil war at all. DC was again breaking the law, leveling trade tariffs on english cotten sales, unconstitutional. just like now-- DC is allowing 20 million illegal mexican workers in and supplementing them with section 8 welfare and medical. also DC gave 1.3 billion to mexican army who help escort the illegal workers here. not much has changed. AZ and mccain have had the guts to stand up to DC again. the spirit of the south is guts. they fight our wars those southern boys, however we have nothing but contempt for them.
Keep in mind that many of the Founding Fathers were actually opponents of slavery and several slave holding Founding Fathers (Jefferson for instance) had very mixed feelings about slavery and wanted it to be slowly abolished.
Some were, some were -- at most -- ambivelent. At the same time though, most of the Founding Fathers were Southerners and their opinion on the subject fairly represented the South -- not just the nation -- for a very long time. To wit, the prevailing opinion in the South up until around 1830 or so was that slavery was a "necessary evil" bound for eventual extinction. It was only when radical abolishionists in the northeast began demanding immediate emancipation without regard to economic reality (although their own ancestors had been very attuned to said reality when they made their fortunes off the slave-trade!) that the South gradually adopted a harder line.
Quote:
The Confederacy sucked. It was probably as close to a totalitarian state as has ever existed in the US.
Although you are generally fair-minded when it comes to the history of the WBTS and its causes? With all due respect, this statement is outlandish. If anything, it was Lincoln's policies (shutting down of dissenting newspapers, arrest without benefit of hearing, sentencing without habeous corpus, that were the closest thing to a totalitarian state on American soil.
I would really like to hear your rationale for saying the CSA approached a totalitarian state in relation to the Old Union (i.e. northern states which kept the name by default).
Thanks for a repeat of the old, tired Lost Cause propaganda. It's false.
You are very welcome. I hope you enjoyed it and learned something. As you can see, the page/articles are very well-researched and supported by numerous sources (check out bibliography).
If it is wrong, then refute it with your own sources for "truth". Seems a simple enough counter-proposal to me...
You are very welcome. I hope you enjoyed it and learned something. As you can see, the page/articles are very well-researched and supported by numerous sources (check out bibliography).
If it is wrong, then refute it with truth. Seems a simple enough counter-proposal to me...
People who proudly sport the Confederate flag should be regarded as traitors.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
