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Old 09-29-2014, 02:27 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 903,694 times
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Tea Partiers have yet to explain exactly how Obama is supposedly a socialist. He has lower taxes and laxer gun laws than Reagan yet they'd never use the S-word about Reagan. No real logic with conservatives, its what Rush tells them is fact day to day. Rush said deficits were healthy to conservatism when Bush was in the White House yet decided they were evil and liberal when the black guy got in.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:34 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,168,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolZombie View Post
Tea Partiers have yet to explain exactly how Obama is supposedly a socialist. He has lower taxes and laxer gun laws than Reagan yet they'd never use the S-word about Reagan. No real logic with conservatives, its what Rush tells them is fact day to day. Rush said deficits were healthy to conservatism when Bush was in the White House yet decided they were evil and liberal when the black guy got in.
Obama and virtually every president we have had, at least in the last hundred years very much so, has been a socialist, because we are a socialist nation. Obviously not every tenet of the manifesto is fully enforced, but any provision puts its evil on a direct and unavoidable path to communism at some point in the future. So is Obama "more" socialist than any other president...not really. Only silly true-believers of either party would think that we are not on course toward totalitarianism. We are in the "land of the free" doing exactly what Marx and Lenin designed socialism to do. To make free people voluntarily, peacefully, and gradually choose slavery to the State over freedom.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:36 PM
 
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One man's judgement on degree is all his opinion is.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
Obama has been more of a weak & naive labor union pawn than anything since his election.
Actually, he's screwed-over organized labor throughout his entire tenure. He's taken hundreds of millions in campaign contributions from the AFL-CIO and member unions, yet he's constantly failed to follow through on his promises to workers--both unionized and non-union. He is a die-hard capitalist who has absolutely no connection with socialism.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:56 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 903,694 times
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Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Obama and virtually every president we have had, at least in the last hundred years very much so, has been a socialist, because we are a socialist nation. Obviously not every tenet of the manifesto is fully enforced, but any provision puts its evil on a direct and unavoidable path to communism at some point in the future. So is Obama "more" socialist than any other president...not really. Only silly true-believers of either party would think that we are not on course toward totalitarianism. We are in the "land of the free" doing exactly what Marx and Lenin designed socialism to do. To make free people voluntarily, peacefully, and gradually choose slavery to the State over freedom.
No that's completely ridiculous as we don't have single payer universal health care, even mild gun control laws or any government ownership of industry. Rush Limbaugh is not influencing your brain positively, feeding in propaganda without even a semblance of reality.
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Old 09-29-2014, 03:01 PM
 
Location: SGV
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Does it really matter which way these megalomaniacs "lean" when they steal from their subjects?
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Old 09-29-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,168,174 times
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Originally Posted by CoolZombie View Post
No that's completely ridiculous as we don't have single payer universal health care, even mild gun control laws or any government ownership of industry. Rush Limbaugh is not influencing your brain positively, feeding in propaganda without even a semblance of reality.
Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. (hidden in property tax)

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. (duh)

Abolition of all right of inheritance. (inheritance tax)

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. (drug seizures, delinquent tax payers, etc)

Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. (the federal reserve)

Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. (FCC)

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production. (public schools)

We are doing a bang up job of working towards the totalitarianism that the tenets make happen...
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Old 09-29-2014, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Obama and virtually every president we have had, at least in the last hundred years very much so, has been a socialist, because we are a socialist nation. Obviously not every tenet of the manifesto is fully enforced, but any provision puts its evil on a direct and unavoidable path to communism at some point in the future. So is Obama "more" socialist than any other president...not really. Only silly true-believers of either party would think that we are not on course toward totalitarianism. We are in the "land of the free" doing exactly what Marx and Lenin designed socialism to do. To make free people voluntarily, peacefully, and gradually choose slavery to the State over freedom.
The root economic definition of socialism is that the means of production is controlled by the workers, as opposed to being controlled by a plutarchy. In state socialism, the government (in theory, on behalf of the workers) owns the means of production, while the profits of labor are distributed communally to the citizens. More often than not, state socialism becomes readily corrupted by the lure of capitalism and/or tyranny.

Libertarian socialism (anarchism) places the means of production directly in the hands of the workers doing the production. This functions well on a small scale. However, it remains to be seen whether or not it is practical on a broad-based, societal scale. At any rate, as long as the means of production are held by private entities who are not directly engage in production, you cannot have any type of socialism. Most modern political ideologies blend elements of capitalist and socialist economic theories together.

By the way, Marx (and to a lesser degree, Lenin) was an anti-statist. The cornerstone of Marxist economic and political theory rests with the "withering away of the state". Totalitarianism has absolutely nothing to with economics. It is a political concept involving state control over the citizenry. Historically, it has emerged more frequently within hyper-capitalistic economic structures than it has within socialist structures. Both major US capitalist political parties have elements of totalitarianism within their respective platforms--they always have had.
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Old 09-29-2014, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
I wouldn't go that far.

The problem is most people in Western countries cannot distinguish liberal social policies from neoliberal economics. Both major parties in the US (and the major parties in Canada, UK, and Australia) embrace neoliberal economics.

The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans really is neoliberalism (Dems) vs. corporatism (GOP).
Obama is much more of a corporatist than most Republicans. When the Ex-Im Bank a vehicle of corporate welfare, was set to expire, virtually all the opposition for renewal came from Tea Party Republicans. Pres. Obama was all in favor of renewal. In fact he has worked to expand the bailiwick of Ex-Im.
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:29 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 6,799,022 times
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Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Of course. However, socialism is designed to take any free people and make them choose totalitarianism over freedom voluntarily. It was specifically designed to take advantage of the absolute worst traits of humanity, jealousy, greed, and laziness and use those traits to have humans choose slavery to the State over freedom.
Actually socialism was designed to mitigate the consequences of capitalism that arose.due to.the industrial age.

Any system can be used to grab power, that is not a flaw in socialism but humans.
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