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Old 01-20-2014, 07:46 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,593,274 times
Reputation: 46000

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Priest View Post
My God, why are the two of you assuming that everyone who is poor is a drug-addicted bum who didn't graduate high school? Whether you know it or not, you're making a lot of assumptions. You're making a blanket statement that's utterly false, and this demonstrates ignorance. Most people I know who are struggling don't fit your description, not at all. Just because many people weren't quite as lucky as you in terms of financial success doesn't give you the right to say blatantly false things about them, to attack their character, to imply that you're better than they are. My, how judgmental some people are! Many people could use a lesson in empathy, in compassion.
That's nice. But it's also misplaced.

In this country, we do not have an employment problem. We have a skills problem. Jobs left and right are going begging because there are not enough skilled workers. We're not talking about degreed workers either. We're talking about the kind of skills that could be obtained by a year at a community college, skills training that is often underwritten by the government.

Poverty in this country is very much tied to behavior. It is almost a ubiquitous adage in this country that education is the path to a better life. And that education doesn't have to take the form of a college degree. Hey, a welder doesn't require a degree, only some training and an apprenticeship. But welders make $40,000 a year on average.

One of the most eye-opening experiences of my life was when I was asked to consult for a housing project. One of the requirements was to interview 100 residents of the project to learn their attitudes. Mind you, this was a project that had a very active jobs-training program, education programs, tutors, and a host of other available resources for anyone who wanted to hoist himself or herself out of poverty. The walls of the community center were positively festooned with posters advertising programs.

Of the 100 people I interviewed, roughly 50% were there because of some cataclysm in their lives. A lost job. A broken marriage. A house that burned down. And this half of my interview pool were actively participating in those programs, seeing public housing as just the place of last resort until they could pick up the broken pieces of their lives.

The other 50%? They had been in the project for years and made no bones about it. We're talking able-bodied people who, when asked how they spent their days, were rather candid about watching television, hanging out, and the whatnot. Several spent quite a bit of time discussing how, if they cobbled together some lawn mowing jobs, they could live off the government stipend check. They were gaming the system and fully admitted it. They also had no desire to learn new skills or get a job. One guy flat-out told me that work was for chumps.

I'll do anything to help that first 50%. The second 50%? Heck no.

 
Old 01-20-2014, 08:06 AM
 
70,866 posts, read 71,228,648 times
Reputation: 48447
we find a lot are just not employable. we have lots of jobs available.

they can not pass a drug test
they can not pas a background check
they can not pass a credit check

they speak poor English

they dress like the cat dragged them in.

we have not even gotten to job skills yet
 
Old 01-20-2014, 08:46 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,593,274 times
Reputation: 46000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we find a lot are just not employable. we have lots of jobs available.

they can not pass a drug test
they can not pas a background check
they can not pass a credit check

they speak poor English

they dress like the cat dragged them in.

we have not even gotten to job skills yet
True.
 
Old 01-20-2014, 09:34 PM
 
24,843 posts, read 32,302,155 times
Reputation: 11452
We have a problem with people being lazy....we hire at $18 per hour to start......hard dirty work...with lots of breaks.

I pack a cooler each day with pop and snack.

Many will not last one day.

Is it to hard......I am 41/female and I can do it.
 
Old 01-21-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,680,855 times
Reputation: 7280
To me, it's hard to argue against most of those 10 suggestions. For the most part they don't apply to the average upper middle class taxpayer. There's no avoiding the fact that current tax code favors the upper class wealthy and big corporations.

I was doing fine under Clinton at the old rates. I was making six figures. No issue paying taxes. I admit to being happy when that October paycheck came through and there was no deduction for SS - and it stayed that way through the end of the year. But paying SS through the end of the year wouldn't have had a major negative effect on me.

That said, if we were going to collect all this extra money by keeping it from going offshore and going back to Clinton-era rates, I would want to know it's actually being spent on things that need investment - primarily infrastructure, not more entitlements, not more micromanaging states, not unneeded defense projects. There are tons of infrastructure projects that need to be done in this country that require funding - not just roads & bridges, but ports, communications, air traffic control and similar projects. When Fed taxes get cut, more burden falls to the states. And if you're not Texas, funds are probably pretty scarce in your state to fix stuff.

So yeah, IMO closing a lot of the loopholes and going back to Clinton era tax rates isn't going to cause financial ruin for any person or entity. But at the same time, this has to be coupled with more responsible government. The first part is pretty easy to do. But I think most voters would be dubious about the second part being possible. And that may be where the real crime is.
 
Old 01-21-2014, 08:32 AM
 
24,843 posts, read 32,302,155 times
Reputation: 11452
I approach taxes from a different view.....it works for me.

We are NOT taxed on what we make.....we are taxed on what we KEEP.

Just keep investing in yourself.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 08:12 PM
 
Location: roaming about Allegheny City
655 posts, read 788,767 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
That's nice. But it's also misplaced.

In this country, we do not have an employment problem. We have a skills problem. Jobs left and right are going begging because there are not enough skilled workers. We're not talking about degreed workers either. We're talking about the kind of skills that could be obtained by a year at a community college, skills training that is often underwritten by the government.

Poverty in this country is very much tied to behavior. It is almost a ubiquitous adage in this country that education is the path to a better life. And that education doesn't have to take the form of a college degree. Hey, a welder doesn't require a degree, only some training and an apprenticeship. But welders make $40,000 a year on average.

One of the most eye-opening experiences of my life was when I was asked to consult for a housing project. One of the requirements was to interview 100 residents of the project to learn their attitudes. Mind you, this was a project that had a very active jobs-training program, education programs, tutors, and a host of other available resources for anyone who wanted to hoist himself or herself out of poverty. The walls of the community center were positively festooned with posters advertising programs.

Of the 100 people I interviewed, roughly 50% were there because of some cataclysm in their lives. A lost job. A broken marriage. A house that burned down. And this half of my interview pool were actively participating in those programs, seeing public housing as just the place of last resort until they could pick up the broken pieces of their lives.

The other 50%? They had been in the project for years and made no bones about it. We're talking able-bodied people who, when asked how they spent their days, were rather candid about watching television, hanging out, and the whatnot. Several spent quite a bit of time discussing how, if they cobbled together some lawn mowing jobs, they could live off the government stipend check. They were gaming the system and fully admitted it. They also had no desire to learn new skills or get a job. One guy flat-out told me that work was for chumps.

I'll do anything to help that first 50%. The second 50%? Heck no.
What I don't like are these mean-spirited generalizations. Many people who have posted here, when speaking of the poor, talk in terms of stereotypes, and frankly, it's both ridiculous and rude. By and large, people with little money, at least those I know (perhaps I know the wrong sort of poor), aren't a bunch of do-nothing high school drop-outs who spend all day simultaneously making babies, getting high and/or drunk, smoking cigarettes, illegally obtaining food stamps and other government benefits, and getting inked. Good God, don't you people recognize a stereotype? There are many, many poor people who have done everything right, but who have fallen on hard times, usually the result of an illness (severe and chronic physical or psychiatric), a death in the family (primary breadwinner), or just because they're quite elderly, have a lot of medical bills, and make very little on Social Security. But no, most of you don't even understand this; you don't see the shades of grey. Well, I suppose it's my job to educate you then, oh ye of great ignorance and elitism.

On the other hand, I don't want to speak of the rich in terms of generalizations or stereotypes either. Some rich people are wonderful, benevolent individuals. Just like any other group, there are amongst the rich both good and bad. We have and have had many great wealthy people throughout the history of this country. Such people as Warren Buffet, Andrew Carnegie, Theodore Roosevelt, and Franklin Roosevelt come to mind. I know there are many, many others in politics, the business world, and the arts and sciences who came from wealth but who did wonderful things for this country and its people. However, make no mistake, there are an awful lot of nasty, vile, mean-spirited, avaricious rich as well. The Koch Brothers come to mind, as does Dick Cheney, Mitt Romney, the Walton Children (too bad the apples fell so far from the tree there), Bernie Madoff, etc.

Last edited by The King of Um; 01-22-2014 at 08:22 PM..
 
Old 01-22-2014, 09:48 PM
 
39,128 posts, read 20,259,055 times
Reputation: 12691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Priest View Post
Many people who have posted here, when speaking of the poor, talk in terms of stereotypes, and frankly, it's both ridiculous and rude.
But it's ok for the poor to attack successful people? just sayin.

That's pretty much what is happening and when it's flung back at you then it becomes an issue to you.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 10:44 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,688,108 times
Reputation: 18036
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
But it's ok for the poor to attack successful people? just sayin.

That's pretty much what is happening and when it's flung back at you then it becomes an issue to you.
Yep; those who want something from the exact people they critise. I say go out and do it yourself ;its a free country. I expect government to assure their continued success ;so bills get paid.
 
Old 01-23-2014, 01:11 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,800 posts, read 1,762,218 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i smell " a financial loser"

it is always those who were unsuccessful financially that want to either take from others who were or preach about the doom of the country or the markets. they would like to see nothing more than everyone else to lose what they have so they feel better about their own lack of success.

perhaps grandpa should have spent less on pipes and tobacco and more investing in those things he hates.
Why does it have to be seen as taking? Could employers be kind and share their wealth? I guess they need another care or to take another expensive vacation more. Your post is trolling at its best.
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