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Old 02-09-2014, 08:33 PM
 
109 posts, read 115,781 times
Reputation: 81

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Why would we force people who have done well to share their wealth with everyone else?

That is like stealing from them.

I can make it on my own and do not need to steal from people who have the talent to make lots of money.

 
Old 05-17-2014, 12:36 AM
 
12 posts, read 8,896 times
Reputation: 10
You have to be a little explosive to share your point of view with rich, its a difficult task to influence them to share their wealth.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 07:43 AM
 
460 posts, read 408,740 times
Reputation: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida-Dude View Post
Why would we force people who have done well to share their wealth with everyone else?

That is like stealing from them.

I can make it on my own and do not need to steal from people who have the talent to make lots of money.
How about this? I provide you with a plot of land in, say, Liberia. Or perhaps Bangladesh. You will allowed no access to your wealth or connections, have no benefits besides your supposed internal fortitude. This should be agreeable, as you have nothing but the "talent" to "make it on your own".

I expect to see you having risen to your current level of wealth in no time! If so, you can live tax free for the rest of your life!

I highly doubt you'd take the bet. You'd have to be certifiable to take it. You (and everyone else) are merely piggybacking off of the infrastructure and society in which you live. For the wealthy, this is even more true and obvious. The contribution of any one person is minimal, but collectively it is enormous.

The reality is that the the wealthy benefit far more from living in a society than anyone else. It is arrogance to believe they are special snowflakes deserving of their wealth, or that they are the products of anything other than an immense chain of luck, including but not exclusively their parents, education, genetics, peers, childhood economic status, region, dialect, race, timing, macroeconomic trends, etc...
 
Old 05-20-2014, 08:36 AM
 
580 posts, read 605,692 times
Reputation: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
For the wealthy, this is even more true and obvious. The contribution of any one person is minimal, but collectively it is enormous.

The reality is that the the wealthy benefit far more from living in a society than anyone else. It is arrogance to believe they are special snowflakes deserving of their wealth, or that they are the products of anything other than an immense chain of luck, including but not exclusively their parents, education, genetics, peers, childhood economic status, region, dialect, race, timing, macroeconomic trends, etc...
This argument makes no sense to me. What infrastructure do the rich benefit more from? Police/fire? Lower rates of crime/fire in wealthier areas. Social services? Again, less utilization in wealthier areas. Food stamps/Medicaid/Children's Health Initiative insurance? Likewise.

The wealthy may utilize roads more, but they pay for it in gas taxes. Public transportation, if anything, has more subsidies than roads.

Finally; the wealthy pay a much higher tax rate than the poor, so they pay for their utilization of services. People who gets refunds back through the child tax credit, etc, pay much less of a % of their income for the services they receive.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 09:52 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,292,068 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by IngalillSandstrom View Post
You have to be a little explosive to share your point of view with rich, its a difficult task to influence them to share their wealth.
Why would it be difficult? Selfishness hurts the economy.

We need to get away from this "me me me" economic morality bullcrap. Wealth redistribution is vital to the economy. A man only needs so much food, clothing, water, and spending cash. Excess resources in the hands of one individual can prevent others from spending in the economy. If a rich guy has $500 million laying around to blow on private jets, do you think he is helping the economy more than $500 in the pocket of 1 million other consumers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeable View Post
This argument makes no sense to me. What infrastructure do the rich benefit more from? Police/fire? Lower rates of crime/fire in wealthier areas. Social services? Again, less utilization in wealthier areas. Food stamps/Medicaid/Children's Health Initiative insurance? Likewise.

The wealthy may utilize roads more, but they pay for it in gas taxes. Public transportation, if anything, has more subsidies than roads.

Finally; the wealthy pay a much higher tax rate than the poor, so they pay for their utilization of services. People who gets refunds back through the child tax credit, etc, pay much less of a % of their income for the services they receive.
False false false false false!

The average U.S. highway receives a 50% subsidy of true road maintenance cost.

As for income, no. False again. On a Federal level, the upper income pays more of a % of income in taxes. However, at the state and local level the opposite is true. State and local taxes are extremely regressive, which is why the Federal leveral is highly progressive to offset it.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 09:54 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,292,068 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeable View Post
This argument makes no sense to me. What infrastructure do the rich benefit more from? Police/fire? Lower rates of crime/fire in wealthier areas. Social services? Again, less utilization in wealthier areas.
Yes, the rich do no wrong. They never commit crimes.

Wealthier areas have lower rates of crime and fire because of better service. It is a catch-22. The rich are not "better" citizens than anyone else.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:04 AM
 
Location: USA
7,778 posts, read 10,147,686 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Yes, the rich do no wrong. They never commit crimes.

Wealthier areas have lower rates of crime and fire because of better service. It is a catch-22. The rich are not "better" citizens than anyone else.

Saying the rich do no wrong or they never commit crimes is not only foolish, but false. They aren't better than anyone else, but some are obviously more intelligent. I have a very low opinion of people who whine about the rich not sharing their wealth with people who don't want to work and expect to be given a livelihood.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:06 AM
 
580 posts, read 605,692 times
Reputation: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Why would it be difficult? Selfishness hurts the economy.


False false false false false!

The average U.S. highway receives a 50% subsidy of true road maintenance cost.

As for income, no. False again. On a Federal level, the upper income pays more of a % of income in taxes. However, at the state and local level the opposite is true. State and local taxes are extremely regressive, which is why the Federal leveral is highly progressive to offset it.
Statistics please. Especially when one compares to both the subsidies mass transit receive from local governments on TOP of federal tax deductions one can take when utilizing mass transit (which drivers cannot). Plus, buses use the same darn roads.

Many state taxes are progressive; where do you live? Maryland starts at 2% and goes up to 5.8. California goes up to 11%. Plus with the various subsidies, tax breaks, etc. most low income people receive most of their state, federal witholds back as credits so actual taxes paid are extremely progressive.

I pay almost 45% of my income in state, federal, SS, medicare, and Obamacare taxes. If it's selfish to want to keep more of the $ I work hard to make, why don't YOU send an extra $ to the IRS to fund programs YOU feel merit the extra funding?
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:46 AM
 
Location: London
4,362 posts, read 3,656,924 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida-Dude View Post
Why would we force people who have done well to share their wealth with everyone else?

That is like stealing from them.

I can make it on my own and do not need to steal from people who have the talent to make lots of money.
You are missing the point.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 12:01 PM
 
5,620 posts, read 3,668,943 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
How about this? I provide you with a plot of land in, say, Liberia. Or perhaps Bangladesh. You will allowed no access to your wealth or connections, have no benefits besides your supposed internal fortitude. This should be agreeable, as you have nothing but the "talent" to "make it on your own".

I expect to see you having risen to your current level of wealth in no time! If so, you can live tax free for the rest of your life!

I highly doubt you'd take the bet. You'd have to be certifiable to take it. You (and everyone else) are merely piggybacking off of the infrastructure and society in which you live. For the wealthy, this is even more true and obvious. The contribution of any one person is minimal, but collectively it is enormous.
So the degenerate receiving $1400/mo rental assistance (my mortgage is $2000 for a large home) to live in a 2-3 bedroom by himself, on food stamps, disability, not worth anything to society isn't piggybacking off society?

^^ Real person, I had the misfortune of having to deal with for a job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
The reality is that the the wealthy benefit far more from living in a society than anyone else. It is arrogance to believe they are special snowflakes deserving of their wealth, or that they are the products of anything other than an immense chain of luck, including but not exclusively their parents, education, genetics, peers, childhood economic status, region, dialect, race, timing, macroeconomic trends, etc...
While I don't really find much to disagree with in there, I do disagree with your post in general.

They do benefit from our countries infrastructure more (but not society, many of my taxes I see zero return from), they also shoulder a lot more of the tax burden (I do believe tax rates can be increased on the wealthy too, and that wages are depressed). While they might not be "special snowflakes" it does take a type of person to achieve wealth and keep it, which is a large reason why so many of the poor, are poor.

It is true the wealthy benefit from an immense chain of luck. I had a sizeable advantage over many of my friends, but that merely increased the rate of me building wealth, it was not the deciding factor of will I build wealth or not. I juggled finances and projects in ways that friends did not understand. While they were largely risk adverse, I was up to my eye balls in risk.

I do believe in taxing wealth to help society. I do believe in welfare. But, I do not believe in handouts or keeping those afloat (like the above example) in the manner which we do. As long as someone puts in the effort to better themselves and increase their own lot in life, a helping hand is fine.



As a country I feel we have other issues to address that are more important than what the wealthy pay in taxes. Our mindsets are not what they once were. Today we're all taught we're all special, leading people to think they are entitled to whatever. The whole "everybody gets a trophy" thing these days. Our schools, including college, are quite easy these days.

Building wealth is a mindset. In high school friends worked for snowmobiles, ATVs, whatever other toy there was. I bought stocks. There are friends who always have the newest phone, mine are typically changed at 3 years, usually only because they stop working. I don't really care for material things.

The country is run by consumption, but for many there is excessive frivolous consumption. People want to build wealth, they have to have that mindset. We live in a society that likes pointing the finger, not accepting blame, as there is always someone else to blame.
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