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Old 05-20-2014, 12:06 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,651,391 times
Reputation: 1990

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
It is true the wealthy benefit from an immense chain of luck.
No so. The flawed economic system we use is geared towards them. Hard figures prove that.

The Swiss are considering a Citizens income. Enough to live on and more. It will give security and cut down welfare payments promoting production.

 
Old 05-20-2014, 12:07 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,663 posts, read 74,604,692 times
Reputation: 48168
when a communist government takes over they stripe the rich and take their stuff. they tell the rich that we are taking your stuff beck you stole it from the poor. next the communist party bosses take all the stuff and the people get zip or at best a few scraps. soon after they jail or kill anybody that says jack about it.
beware of people that say lets rob the rich.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 12:24 PM
 
5,608 posts, read 3,663,685 times
Reputation: 5427
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
No so. The flawed economic system we use is geared towards them. Hard figures prove that.

The Swiss are considering a Citizens income. Enough to live on and more. It will give security and cut down welfare payments promoting production.
That has nothing to do with luck, which in this country it does rely more and more on.

Canada, and other first world countries, have better class mobility than the US does these days.


Thought that Swiss bill got shot down the other day? As much as I believe our wages here in the US are low; if we had a bill such as what the Swiss are proposing I'd still vote no on it.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 01:08 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,287,291 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeable View Post
Statistics please. Especially when one compares to both the subsidies mass transit receive from local governments on TOP of federal tax deductions one can take when utilizing mass transit (which drivers cannot). Plus, buses use the same darn roads.
This stuff is publicly available.

Drivers only put up 50.4% of the tab. Amtrak, for all the jokes directed at it... posts up 88% of its tab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeable View Post
Many state taxes are progressive; where do you live? Maryland starts at 2% and goes up to 5.8. California goes up to 11%. Plus with the various subsidies, tax breaks, etc. most low income people receive most of their state, federal witholds back as credits so actual taxes paid are extremely progressive.
Stop stop stop. You are focusing on income taxes only. State taxes are highly regressive. Sales, property, excise, and payroll taxes eat up a hefty amount of even a low-wage worker's income. Even people off the books pay sales taxes.

Maryland is not progressive. It is simply less regressive than the backwards conservative states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeable View Post
I pay almost 45% of my income in state, federal, SS, medicare, and Obamacare taxes. If it's selfish to want to keep more of the $ I work hard to make, why don't YOU send an extra $ to the IRS to fund programs YOU feel merit the extra funding?
"Me me me!!!"

Like I said, morality does not form the basis of economics. Policy should be based on fundamentals.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,531,774 times
Reputation: 9216
Not sure I agree property taxes are regressive at all. They are paid by property owners, which are not lower income people in general. Property taxes are typically deductive for itemizers, but deductible just means a reduction in income taxes on a marginal basis. People of even upper middle incomes lose the ability to deduct these items anyway.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 02:21 PM
 
5,608 posts, read 3,663,685 times
Reputation: 5427
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Not sure I agree property taxes are regressive at all. They are paid by property owners, which are not lower income people in general. Property taxes are typically deductive for itemizers, but deductible just means a reduction in income taxes on a marginal basis. People of even upper middle incomes lose the ability to deduct these items anyway.
Perhaps not in major metro areas, but in large parts of the countries they are. Many homes that have passed from generation to generation for families. A large thing in my state, is with the influx of vacationers buying up property, many of these families can no longer afford the taxes and end up losing their homes because of quick appreciation.

Property taxes aren't set by how much you earn or how much you spend.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,531,774 times
Reputation: 9216
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Perhaps not in major metro areas, but in large parts of the countries they are. Many homes that have passed from generation to generation for families. A large thing in my state, is with the influx of vacationers buying up property, many of these families can no longer afford the taxes and end up losing their homes because of quick appreciation.

Property taxes aren't set by how much you earn or how much you spend.
They don't "lose" their homes. They sell them, for an enormous appreciation, when that happens.

Gentrification causes this too. But what would you do about it? It is at minimum unpleasant for the home owners. But they will make a lot of money and move to some place they can afford.

Nothing stays the same over the long term. It isn't reasonable for government to try to protect people from all economic changes.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 03:45 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,651,391 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
when a communist government takes over they stripe the rich and take their stuff. they tell the rich that we are taking your stuff beck you stole it from the poor. next the communist party bosses take all the stuff and the people get zip or at best a few scraps. soon after they jail or kill anybody that says jack about it.
beware of people that say lets rob the rich.
You have been reading too many odd books.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 03:49 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,651,391 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
That has nothing to do with luck, which in this country it does rely more and more on.
The figure show the top few percent are stinking rich which is not down to luck. Study some economics and social/politocal history.

There is still a hint of a hope for the Swiss. A Citizens dividend paid for by commonly created wealth will work.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 03:53 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,651,391 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Perhaps not in major metro areas, but in large parts of the countries they are. Many homes that have passed from generation to generation for families. A large thing in my state, is with the influx of vacationers buying up property, many of these families can no longer afford the taxes and end up losing their homes because of quick appreciation.

Property taxes aren't set by how much you earn or how much you spend.
The problem with property taxes is that they conflate CAPITAL (the buildings) and the LAND. The tax should be on LAND only and based on the land's value, and assessed annually. As economic community activity soaks into the land crystalizing as land values, we are reclaiming common wealth. Then we can eliminate destructive and regressive income and sales taxes.

Taxing buildings, CAPITAL, is like taxing your sofa.
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