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Old 05-31-2014, 06:55 AM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,369,965 times
Reputation: 2729

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Super high tax rates will likely have unintended consequences. You will cause high income people to earn their money outside the US to escape taxes. That does nothing good for the US. Others will find new ways to hide income to avoid punitive taxation.

I think taxing capital gains as ordinary income is a legitimate topic for discussion, though economists have differing views on the sense of that.

Do you understand that people like Gates and Buffett don't really have massive capital gains? They have massive wealth, and only have capital gains when they sell stock or other assets? Gates could have $50M or $100M in capital gains, and taxing it more than 20% wouldn't really generate that much revenue.
Without cap gains or repatriation they never get to use their wealth. For the purpose of preventing oligarchs from buying society, that works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
LOL is a cliche, but reading this elicited an actual LOL in my office. Too bloody rich! You want to live in a free society? You can't handle living in a free society! Abominably surreal. The guy comes out for taking money away from people because he arbitrarily declares they don't deserve it, and now he's a FREEDOM FIGHTER! The guy believes that the world is inherently unjust, allowing him to steal from others out of need, and now he wants to promote "freedom and morality" so he will be "happier". Ludicrous? No: the collectivist mentality permits and encourages such grotesque and perverse logical misadventures.

You know what? Stop lying. Kwhite and Opin Yunated are miserable and never-to-be-happy leftists, but they admit and parade their philosophical failings as if they are features in a new car. You need to do the same. The disparate and fragmented globules of consciousness that meander through your brain like some tragic broken Lava Lamp and pass for your philosophy are bankrupt and morose, and you know it. So own it! It's yours!

I get to be the one around here promoting freedom. Because I actually believe in it. You don't, you never did, you never will. Here's a hint my dopey old padawan: Freedom and theft don't go together!

It could have been your union member father, or your Euro-grandfather, or your ill-advised and misinformed left wing professors, but you bought their bankrupt and prostrate line of deterministic utilitarian tyranny hook, line, sinker, gastroscope, proctoscope, and colostomy bag. Now you get to wear it, with the illogical malevolent slime leaking out the side and stinking up the room. It's horrible, but it's yours. So stick a clothes pin on your nose and be the ball.
Taxes aren't theft; if you disagree then leave the country.

And yes, the world is unjust. Please argue otherwise.

 
Old 05-31-2014, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,531,774 times
Reputation: 9216
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Without cap gains or repatriation they never get to use their wealth. For the purpose of preventing oligarchs from buying society, that works.
No it wont. You don't understand what wealth is. Taxing capital gains more, even drastically more, would not have prevented Gates/Ellison/Bezos from attaining their wealth - nor would it give the government the redistribution you so desperately want.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,954 posts, read 7,911,933 times
Reputation: 11183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
All of Europe? That's quite a stretch. Now you sound like the former poster Grandpa Pipes, OP of this thread, who was always posting links to the Economic Collapse Blog and saying the sky was falling.
The European sky isn't falling, it already fell. The only reason Putin hasn't ridden through Paris on his motorcycle is the good old USA.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 01:44 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,369,965 times
Reputation: 2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
No it wont. You don't understand what wealth is. Taxing capital gains more, even drastically more, would not have prevented Gates/Ellison/Bezos from attaining their wealth - nor would it give the government the redistribution you so desperately want.
If his capital gains and income were hypothetically taxed at 100%, are you saying that this would not have had any impact on Bill Gates' consumption?
 
Old 05-31-2014, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,434,659 times
Reputation: 15678
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
Statistics show that wealth levels are linked to educational levels. Better educated parents tend to have better educated children. They tend to teach their children how to make, save, invest money (I know, UNFAIR PRIVILEGE OF BIRTH!). They tend to live in communities with better educational systems, and hang out with better educated peer groups.

Tell me again why you seem to be singularly focused on taking money from the wealthy because they have not "earned anything," rather than focusing on building a system from the bottom up which provides more equitable educational opportunity and knowledge/training/path for improving status and increasing wealth.

Your only solution here seems to be to take from others what you have not earned. Any other ideas?
Actually, statistics show that more intelligent parents tend to have more intelligent children. It is an IQ thing. The shallow end of the gene pool can produce genius, and the deep end of the gene pool can produce cretins, but the odds are that two parents who each are 2 or 3 standard deviations above the mean will produce children that are also 2 or 3 standard deviations above the mean, which in turn means a great capacity to generate income and wealth.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,434,659 times
Reputation: 15678
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
So, even you think an "average" person in the upper class should have 60 times as much as an "average" person in the lower class? I like a lot of your points, but that's still a truly grotesque imbalance in economic democracy.
In a meritocracy, you earn what you earn. It is immoral to take from someone who has earned it to give to someone who hasn't.

But then again, that government which takes from Peter to give to Paul shall surely have the support of Paul.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,531,774 times
Reputation: 9216
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
If his capital gains and income were hypothetically taxed at 100%, are you saying that this would not have had any impact on Bill Gates' consumption?
I don't know that Gates' finances are. But let's say he spends $100M per year on private jets, hobbies, food, luxuries of all kinds, and gifts to people he likes. And to fund that spending, he relies on interest, dividends, no real salary, and he sells some stock. Taxing his capital gains, even 100%, would not have any material change on his acquisition of wealth. If half of his spending is tied to capital gains, you (the government actually) would gain $50M to spend on the wealth redistribution you so desperately want.

In the meantime his $75B in wealth is untouched.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 03:17 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,369,965 times
Reputation: 2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I don't know that Gates' finances are. But let's say he spends $100M per year on private jets, hobbies, food, luxuries of all kinds, and gifts to people he likes. And to fund that spending, he relies on interest, dividends, no real salary, and he sells some stock. Taxing his capital gains, even 100%, would not have any material change on his acquisition of wealth. If half of his spending is tied to capital gains, you (the government actually) would gain $50M to spend on the wealth redistribution you so desperately want.

In the meantime his $75B in wealth is untouched.
Er, what? Where did he get the stock? It's a mix of compensation (income, taxed at 100%) and cap gains (taxed at 100%), and his interest and dividends are also taxed at 100% as income. The only way he spends $100mil is if he acquired that much without any income or investment gains.

In the meantime his $75B in wealth has been taxed away as he received it as compensation so it doesn't exist in the first place.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,772 posts, read 54,424,430 times
Reputation: 31073
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I don't know that Gates' finances are. But let's say he spends $100M per year on private jets, hobbies, food, luxuries of all kinds, and gifts to people he likes. And to fund that spending, he relies on interest, dividends, no real salary, and he sells some stock. Taxing his capital gains, even 100%, would not have any material change on his acquisition of wealth. If half of his spending is tied to capital gains, you (the government actually) would gain $50M to spend on the wealth redistribution you so desperately want.

In the meantime his $75B in wealth is untouched.
How is it fair to tax him at a higher rate than you or I, just because he is more financially successful?
It actually seems more fair to charge people without any income a minimum tax since they are still getting the benefits of the government services, in fact usually more of them.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
407 posts, read 678,470 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by maschuette View Post
Why do you think your entitled to someone else's money? Do you think michael jordan owes you $20? Why dont you focus on your own financing and then you wont need other peoples money?
I know this is an old post, but it speaks truth.

Why should those who work for a living be forced to share the fruits of their labors with those who choose not to work?
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