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Old 04-16-2010, 01:11 PM
 
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It should also be pointed out that the founders never intended to shield individuals from public expressions of faith.

Freedom “from” religion is a 20th century invention as is the notion of the “wall” of separation. Some like to act like these things have been with us for our entire 230 year history but that is simply not supported by the historic record.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,313 posts, read 1,375,473 times
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Talking I think I made my own head hurt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Thank you!

Of course the government cannot tell individuals not to have a day of prayer. But on the National Day of Prayer, the president is supposed to ask everyone to pray.

AND...Obama bashers-- In the story, an Obama spokesman said because the ruling will be appealed, Obama will still observe the NDoP. Now who are you gonna hate on?
Myself?
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: North America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Jefferson's reply to Danbury was not proof that the founders intended that the federal government was prevented from promoting faith in general.

The letter even speaks of a national religion and Jefferson’s opposition to such. It is not a treatise on the constitution nor is it some magic proof that the founders sought to prevent the government from promoting faith in general.

In fact if anything Jefferson’s letter proves that the founders opposed the establishment of a single denomination of Christianity to become the official tax supported church of America…. And nothing more.

Other writings of Jefferson show support for the idea of faith being expressed in the public domain.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

This is to what I refer. This is the wall of separation. Prayer is an expression of religion, whether it is Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. By delcaring a NDOP, the government is, in effect making a law respecting the establishment of religion. People can still pray, people can still worship, or not, as they please.

Whether the NDOP will be struck down by the SCOTUS remains to be seen.

And, before anyone asks, or assumes anything, I am a Christian, raised a Southern Baptist, and was dunked back in 1981.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,842,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkcin View Post
Perhaps Obama should nominate you to sit on the SCOTUS.

Well just pray then that it gets overturned.
I certainly would not serve.
But it will set a precedent either way.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
[And, before anyone asks, or assumes anything, I am a Christian, raised a Southern Baptist, and was dunked back in 1981.
what's dunked?????

do you mean baptized, as a baby???
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

This is to what I refer. This is the wall of separation. Prayer is an expression of religion, whether it is Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. By delcaring a NDOP, the government is, in effect making a law respecting the establishment of religion. People can still pray, people can still worship, or not, as they please.

Whether the NDOP will be struck down by the SCOTUS remains to be seen.

And, before anyone asks, or assumes anything, I am a Christian, raised a Southern Baptist, and was dunked back in 1981.
The problem i see is the national day of prayer is a non binding resolution. A non binding resolution is not a law, therefore there has to be some question as if a non binding resolution can be declared unconstitutional.
The Sc deals with he constitutionality of laws and has never had a case about a non binding resolution since it is not a law
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: North America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
what's dunked?????

do you mean baptized, as a baby???

No, in the Baptist religion, you are baptised (dunked- full immersion) when you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Most Baptist churches have a baptismal pool in the back of the choir pews. My mother was "dunked" in a river in Tennessee.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: North America
19,633 posts, read 12,451,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
The problem i see is the national day of prayer is a non binding resolution. A non binding resolution is not a law, therefore there has to be some question as if a non binding resolution can be declared unconstitutional.
The Sc deals with he constitutionality of laws and has never had a case about a non binding resolution since it is not a law

I'm sure that will be addressed on appeal, or in the Supreme Court.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:21 PM
 
2,105 posts, read 1,196,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Why do they need to be accommodated?
They can pray wherever and whenever they want without government intervention or support.
They get all the support they need without special consideration.

Think they'd support a national day of anti-prayer?
This gives special consideration to one group over another.
Maybe some of them fear that one day, their religion won't have more influence than others.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:22 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,347 posts, read 14,059,178 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
No, in the Baptist religion, you are baptised (dunked- full immersion) when you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Most Baptist churches have a baptismal pool in the back of the choir pews. My mother was "dunked" in a river in Tennessee.
So it was 'baptized' just not as a baby

I just know that the baptists, and their fanatical cousins the 'born-agains' are part of the extreme on the religious scale

I had a bunch of them ask me 'Are you Saaaaved?', when I was stationed in North Carolina
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