U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:11 PM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,131,432 times
Reputation: 6562

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoZ View Post
I just don't think the government should have anything to do with religion. If someone in their church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever wants to pray or even initiate their own sort of Prayer Day, by all means. But to have this national holiday, even if it doesn't inherently force anyone to pray one way or the other, I think is kind of ridiculous.

it is nice to have thoughts. we all have them.

Mark Twain pointed out that we each "write a 100,000 word volume" each day and that we wouldnt want any of them read....

The question here isnt one of what we "think" but what the constitution allows and disallows.

There simply is no evidence that the intention of the first Amendment was to block government from generally promoting faith.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 28,263,397 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Prayer is religious.
Otherwise, what would you pray for/to? Yourself?

Here's the Merriam-Webster definition of prayer:

Prayer - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought <said a prayer for the success of the voyage> (2) : a set order of words used in praying b : an earnest request or wish
2 : the act or practice of praying to God or a god <kneeling in prayer>
3 : a religious service consisting chiefly of prayers óoften used in plural
4 : something prayed for
5 : a slight chance <haven't got a prayer>
In the number 1 definition the words, or a god, appear and this decision was aimed at Christian prayer. I see that it is ok to take the right away from all no matter whether Christian or not. Maybe you need to edit your definitions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:19 PM
 
15,254 posts, read 16,856,487 times
Reputation: 25438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
well we agree on that. but even if it was a law, which it likely isnt, i still dont have a problem with it.
Would you have a problem if it were a national day to promote and celebrate atheism? And the president called on all people to contemplate whether God really exists?

And it will be interesting to see what the SCOTUS does, since, as you've pointed out, it's not a law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 28,263,397 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkcin View Post
Yes, it is not the place of OUR government to make such rules promoting any religious acts, ie prayer. It's not a matter of you if you don't want to, you don't have to. That is a childish and ignorant remark. If you think it's "regressive" to uphold the Constitution, then allow me to show you the border.

Go read the first amendment, and the letters and documents left by the Founding Fathers.

Good for Wisconsin!
I wonder if this ruling applies to the national day of prayer that Obama attended with Muslims last spring when he failed to go with the Christians. Somehow I failed to see that one mentioned in this decision.

I keep wondering why atheists and other anti-Christians keep thinking that the 1st Amendment says that they can speak out against religion. Somehow they seem to be using that old double standard of the left.

Do you think there is a chance that this woman will be advanced far beyond where she is now? I don't think she will ever be on a Court of Appeals bench.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 28,263,397 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
Ferd, the basic problem is this: Although we were founded by Christians, this nation cannot establish religion by law. Nor can it restrict the free exercise by law. It can be said the NDOP violates the establishment clause of the first amendment. Another poster has pointed out that NDOP is not a law. If this is so, then we'll see where the process takes this case. I believe it will go all the way to SCOTUS.

Jefferson got a lot of flak for the letter to the Danbury Baptists. So this issue is not a new one.
Maybe you can explain to me why the Muslim day of prayer that Obama attended last spring isn't included in this decision, other than the fact that the groups that brought the suit don't care if Muslims do things like this. I keep wondering when they will begin to include Muslims along with Christians for the way they want to pray.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:27 PM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,131,432 times
Reputation: 6562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Would you have a problem if it were a national day to promote and celebrate atheism? And the president called on all people to contemplate whether God really exists?

And it will be interesting to see what the SCOTUS does, since, as you've pointed out, it's not a law.
We always end up in this place donít we?

if the majority of Americans elected a plurality of congress members who thought that was a wonderful thing then I would be on the outside looking in.

But back to my point. We arenít talking about what we think. What we "feel". What we want.

We are talking about what the Constitution allows. And where this conversation is concerned there are 2 very important points.

1. The constitution does not demand that government avoid the promotion of faith in general.

2. There is no constitutional freedom from religion
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:37 PM
 
15,254 posts, read 16,856,487 times
Reputation: 25438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
We always end up in this place donít we?

if the majority of Americans elected a plurality of congress members who thought that was a wonderful thing then I would be on the outside looking in.

But back to my point. We arenít talking about what we think. What we "feel". What we want.

We are talking about what the Constitution allows. And where this conversation is concerned there are 2 very important points.

1. The constitution does not demand that government avoid the promotion of faith in general.

2. There is no constitutional freedom from religion
The First Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting free exercise thereof; ..."

It is at the very least arguable that setting up a NDP is a law (your argument that it's a proclamation and not a law notwithstanding) respecting the establishment of religion. If it's not that, what the heck is it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:39 PM
 
15,254 posts, read 16,856,487 times
Reputation: 25438
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Maybe you can explain to me why the Muslim day of prayer that Obama attended last spring isn't included in this decision, other than the fact that the groups that brought the suit don't care if Muslims do things like this. I keep wondering when they will begin to include Muslims along with Christians for the way they want to pray.
Any link to a news item saying Obama went to a Muslim prayer service (not a blog, but news?) I couldn't find one. All I saw was that he didn't hold a formal event in honor of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: North America
19,633 posts, read 12,464,923 times
Reputation: 8295
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Maybe you can explain to me why the Muslim day of prayer that Obama attended last spring isn't included in this decision, other than the fact that the groups that brought the suit don't care if Muslims do things like this. I keep wondering when they will begin to include Muslims along with Christians for the way they want to pray.
I don;tthink the NDOP requires you to go to a particular religious service, or pray in a designated way. Or did I miss something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Southern NC
1,923 posts, read 4,351,650 times
Reputation: 2517
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
I beg your pardon! I am a conservative which means I work. Actually I own a thriving business. Don't imply I am a left winger looking for handouts.
I'm a liberal and own a thriving business. So?
I know a lot of conservatives on the welfare rolls as well....so there goes your theory.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:55 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top