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Old 06-08-2010, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,492,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmommy2007 View Post
Ok, i saw on some post that is not true and some say it is true...wheather it is or not i do not belive in abortion i think that it is wrong and that a child is a gift from god and not something that you should kill....if you do not want the baby there are plenty of married couples out there that are unable to have childern and would gladly adopt one.
We are choking from the refuse of excess population. Babies are beginning to look like a curse from god to some of us. We should expect more discipline and logic from ourselves than to just breed like barnyard animals and accept whatever comes our way.

Free will - look at it this way. A couple who cannot have children try to move hell and high water to get pregnant. They don't say 'god would give us a kid if he wanted us to have one'. They spend fortunes running from doctor to doctor to bend nature (and god's will?) to have a kid.

Well, those who do not want a kid are entitled to the same consideration. It boils down to it is not gods will, but a matter of choice in both instances.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,492,619 times
Reputation: 8779
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
and a woman can't get pregnant without opening her legs (unless its rape), its her body right? her choice?
Tell that to Palin's daughter, a kid who was evidently reared under that very philosophy. The point is, it does not work.

Schools in which abstinence only is taught have a higher teen pregnancy rate. The point is, it does not work.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:39 AM
 
Location: lake zurich, il
2,943 posts, read 2,383,985 times
Reputation: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Tell that to Palin's daughter, a kid who was evidently reared under that very philosophy. The point is, it does not work.

Schools in which abstinence only is taught have a higher teen pregnancy rate. The point is, it does not work.
I'm 23 and have never even made out, I'm not a social hermit but i have this thing called self control. Abstinence works if you make it work, if you want to **** around and not give half a **** about anything then their are things in the real world called consequences.

The more and more I read pro-choice posters the more and more I believe their mantra should be:

Pro-Choice, Anti-Consequence

There should be a strict law passed that states only women who are raped or have their physical life in danger (meaning giving birth will kill them) can have abortions otherwise its "you make your bed now you sleep in it" no one can say they don't know they can get pregnant if they know how to have sex.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:50 AM
 
13,841 posts, read 14,670,215 times
Reputation: 11528
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
I'm 23 and have never even made out, I'm not a social hermit but i have this thing called self control. Abstinence works if you make it work, if you want to **** around and not give half a **** about anything then their are things in the real world called consequences.

The more and more I read pro-choice posters the more and more I believe their mantra should be:

Pro-Choice, Anti-Consequence

There should be a strict law passed that states only women who are raped or have their physical life in danger (meaning giving birth will kill them) can have abortions otherwise its "you make your bed now you sleep in it" no one can say they don't know they can get pregnant if they know how to have sex.

who are you/we to tell someone you made your bed now lay in it. people live by their own morality, not yours or mine. pro choice is about the option to give birth, give your baby up for adoption or abortion. none of the options are without consequence and a women lives with them no matter what her choice is. a woman has the right to govern her own body. the choice is private and should be up to her, her god if she has one and her doctor.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,492,619 times
Reputation: 8779
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
I'm 23 and have never even made out, I'm not a social hermit but i have this thing called self control. Abstinence works if you make it work, if you want to **** around and not give half a **** about anything then their are things in the real world called consequences.

The more and more I read pro-choice posters the more and more I believe their mantra should be:

Pro-Choice, Anti-Consequence

There should be a strict law passed that states only women who are raped or have their physical life in danger (meaning giving birth will kill them) can have abortions otherwise its "you make your bed now you sleep in it" no one can say they don't know they can get pregnant if they know how to have sex.
Biology is no longer destiny.
I am a woman and now have the same rights as a man and can demonstrate the same control over my appetites.
Sexual urges are different for different folks.
You cannot crawl under someone else's skin and feel what they feel.
There are women who can go their entire life without experiencing sex and those who you would probably call promiscuous.
I don't think lectures and preaching could change either of them to be the opposite - at least to any great extent.
Why are some people born gay?
Why do some hate artichokes?
Ditto, Kandinsky?
Some people are avid readers or love math, others, not so much.
The thing is your method is working for YOU right now, but it will not work for everyone.
We are not all cut from the same cloth.
No, I don't think a woman should have sex with no birth control.
Neither do I think she should suffer through childbirth if an
'accident' happens. A woman should not be punished for loving someone. Love does not always wait until a woman finishes college, has a nice tidy job, and a sizable bank account.
I think many lives are ruined by marrying too young due to an unwanted pregnancy. The partner you may love today may not be the one you'd choose when you become more mature.
It's best to wait and have an abortion now rather than to make a mistake and marrying and going though the additional trauma of a divorce, not to mention putting the kid through that.
But, again, you are entitled to live life on whatever path you choose, and so am I.
That's what freedom is all about.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:09 AM
 
Location: lake zurich, il
2,943 posts, read 2,383,985 times
Reputation: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
who are you/we to tell someone you made your bed now lay in it. people live by their own morality, not yours or mine. pro choice is about the option to give birth, give your baby up for adoption or abortion. none of the options are without consequence and a women lives with them no matter what her choice is. a woman has the right to govern her own body. the choice is private and should be up to her, her god if she has one and her doctor.
tsk tsk i'll go slowly here.

who are you/we to tell someone you made your bed now lay in it.

This is how most of society works; tell your boss to **** off you get fired, drive drunk - kill yourself or someone else, sleep around/be careless about sex - get pregnant....action - reaction. consequences for everything.

people live by their own morality, not yours or mine.

so are you fine with all those people who think its alright to stay home, be fat and lazy, and collect welfare?

pro choice is about the option to give birth, give your baby up for adoption or abortion.

As much as you pro choicers choose to believe that it is about all those things its really just about abortion because any woman can have a baby and/or give it up and be pro-life. saying pro-choice is about all those other things is just a simple ply to distract others from the real issue when it comes to choice "abortion"

none of the options are without consequence and a women lives with them no matter what her choice is.

Wrong again. Abstinence, is the choice without consequences, that every woman has to option of but CHOOSES not to take it.

a woman has the right to govern her own body.

A woman also has the right to say no or use contraceptives or demand that they guy uses contraceptives if anything is to happen, no excuses (unless rape comes into the picture but i already stated my views on that).

the choice is private and should be up to her, her god if she has one and her doctor.

The choice is irresponsible. If you are grown up to have sex, you are grown up to understand the consequences, and are grown up to live with them. Quite simple really. Its just that in todays society everyone one but the person to blame is the one being blamed.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:21 AM
 
Location: lake zurich, il
2,943 posts, read 2,383,985 times
Reputation: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Biology is no longer destiny.
I am a woman and now have the same rights as a man and can demonstrate the same control over my appetites.
Sexual urges are different for different folks.
You cannot crawl under someone else's skin and feel what they feel.
There are women who can go their entire life without experiencing sex and those who you would probably call promiscuous.
I don't think lectures and preaching could change either of them to be the opposite - at least to any great extent.
Why are some people born gay?
Why do some hate artichokes?
Ditto, Kandinsky?
Some people are avid readers or love math, others, not so much.
The thing is your method is working for YOU right now, but it will not work for everyone.
We are not all cut from the same cloth.
No, I don't think a woman should have sex with no birth control.
Neither do I think she should suffer through childbirth if an
'accident' happens. A woman should not be punished for loving someone. Love does not always wait until a woman finishes college, has a nice tidy job, and a sizable bank account.
I think many lives are ruined by marrying too young due to an unwanted pregnancy. The partner you may love today may not be the one you'd choose when you become more mature.
It's best to wait and have an abortion now rather than to make a mistake and marrying and going though the additional trauma of a divorce, not to mention putting the kid through that.
But, again, you are entitled to live life on whatever path you choose, and so am I.
That's what freedom is all about.
Oh please, i'm all for freedom but i'm also all for consequence, let me tell a story of my own to explain...

One day I was going to a great film school in Chicago, I would have been part of the first graduating class and I was almost half way finished. One day though I got stupid. I told a joke off campus (but still in class) about columbine. Looking back on it it was a dumb thing to do because someone overheard it and felt threatened by it. They promptly told the dean of students and I explained myself and they suspended me telling me they would do all they could to get me to come back because I was a good student and they realized it was an accident. The next day I was expelled. My mom putting me in an out patient program at a behavioral health hospital for about a month and I was diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome.

Even though I wish I was still there I made my bed and I have to sleep in it so I had no one to blame but myself.

Yeah its hard to wait, I went through puberty, had testosterone raging threw me. I wanted it everyday but I controlled myself because I have morals AND because i knew the consequences. Just because it was their and I wanted it bad did not mean I got to act on it.

Their are some people out there who like drinking ALOT. But when they pickle their liver and need a transplant, they ain't getting it because they did it to themselves tough world but thats the way it turns.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:23 AM
 
13,841 posts, read 14,670,215 times
Reputation: 11528
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
tsk tsk i'll go slowly here.

who are you/we to tell someone you made your bed now lay in it.

This is how most of society works; tell your boss to **** off you get fired, drive drunk - kill yourself or someone else, sleep around/be careless about sex - get pregnant....action - reaction. consequences for everything.

of course there are consequences to all actions, telling a boss off is no where near being in the position of bearing an unwanted pregnancy. neither is killing someone. you want women to be breeders against their will? that is what you are telling them if you don't give them choice. that or tell them go to a back alley abortionist or take care of it yourself with a coat hanger like in the days before roe v wade

people live by their own morality, not yours or mine.

so are you fine with all those people who think its alright to stay home, be fat and lazy, and collect welfare?

they wanna be fat and lazy that is on them. I would rather pay for the few lazy people cheating welfare then to deny the poor who really need it.

pro choice is about the option to give birth, give your baby up for adoption or abortion.

As much as you pro choicers choose to believe that it is about all those things its really just about abortion because any woman can have a baby and/or give it up and be pro-life. saying pro-choice is about all those other things is just a simple ply to distract others from the real issue when it comes to choice "abortion"

BS a woman does have the choice to do one of three things as it should be. no distraction

none of the options are without consequence and a women lives with them no matter what her choice is.

Wrong again. Abstinence, is the choice without consequences, that every woman has to option of but CHOOSES not to take it.

not many make this choice, great if they do. I will not tell a woman how to run their sexual life. women are smart enough to figure that out for themselves. besides if the woman wants to have an active social life she should be able to. besides many people who choose abstinence are not really abstaining from sex, just penetration. they have a very active sexual life in all other areas. this to me is very hypocritical.

a woman has the right to govern her own body.

A woman also has the right to say no or use contraceptives or demand that they guy uses contraceptives if anything is to happen, no excuses (unless rape comes into the picture but i already stated my views on that).

many times birth control fails, it happens all the time

the choice is private and should be up to her, her god if she has one and her doctor.

The choice is irresponsible. no, not irresponsible at all If you are grown up to have sex, you are grown up to understand the consequences, and are grown up to live with them. lots of people are not grown up that are having sex, you really want these people to be parents? Quite simple really. Its just that in todays society everyone one but the person to blame is the one being blamed.
why a woman may choose abortion is her business, even if it is just because she is not ready to have a baby. it boils down to her body, her choice.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:47 AM
 
Location: lake zurich, il
2,943 posts, read 2,383,985 times
Reputation: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
tsk tsk i'll go slowly here.

who are you/we to tell someone you made your bed now lay in it.

This is how most of society works; tell your boss to **** off you get fired, drive drunk - kill yourself or someone else, sleep around/be careless about sex - get pregnant....action - reaction. consequences for everything.

of course there are consequences to all actions, telling a boss off is no where near being in the position of bearing an unwanted pregnancy. neither is killing someone. you want women to be breeders against their will? that is what you are telling them if you don't give them choice. that or tell them go to a back alley abortionist or take care of it yourself with a coat hanger like in the days before roe v wade

people live by their own morality, not yours or mine.

so are you fine with all those people who think its alright to stay home, be fat and lazy, and collect welfare?

they wanna be fat and lazy that is on them. I would rather pay for the few lazy people cheating welfare then to deny the poor who really need it.

pro choice is about the option to give birth, give your baby up for adoption or abortion.

As much as you pro choicers choose to believe that it is about all those things its really just about abortion because any woman can have a baby and/or give it up and be pro-life. saying pro-choice is about all those other things is just a simple ply to distract others from the real issue when it comes to choice "abortion"

BS a woman does have the choice to do one of three things as it should be. no distraction

none of the options are without consequence and a women lives with them no matter what her choice is.

Wrong again. Abstinence, is the choice without consequences, that every woman has to option of but CHOOSES not to take it.

not many make this choice, great if they do. I will not tell a woman how to run their sexual life. women are smart enough to figure that out for themselves. besides if the woman wants to have an active social life she should be able to. besides many people who choose abstinence are not really abstaining from sex, just penetration. they have a very active sexual life in all other areas. this to me is very hypocritical.

a woman has the right to govern her own body.

A woman also has the right to say no or use contraceptives or demand that they guy uses contraceptives if anything is to happen, no excuses (unless rape comes into the picture but i already stated my views on that).

many times birth control fails, it happens all the time

the choice is private and should be up to her, her god if she has one and her doctor.

The choice is irresponsible. no, not irresponsible at all If you are grown up to have sex, you are grown up to understand the consequences, and are grown up to live with them. lots of people are not grown up that are having sex, you really want these people to be parents? Quite simple really. Its just that in todays society everyone one but the person to blame is the one being blamed.
Ok i'm not good with quotes so ill just do the bold thing again.

of course there are consequences to all actions, telling a boss off is no where near being in the position of bearing an unwanted pregnancy. neither is killing someone. you want women to be breeders against their will? that is what you are telling them if you don't give them choice. that or tell them go to a back alley abortionist or take care of it yourself with a coat hanger like in the days before roe v wade

The choice that is being given to women is the first choice: the choice to have sex. Once they cross that line it was their decision and no amount of twisting of words will change that.

they wanna be fat and lazy that is on them. I would rather pay for the few lazy people cheating welfare then to deny the poor who really need it.

just to be clear i actually agree with you on this don't let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone just brought it up to try and make a point, if you did disagree.

BS a woman does have the choice to do one of three things as it should be. no distraction

This is a complicated one to respond too but I guess I could say thats what I was trying to say in the first place. If you outlaw abortion all the pro-choicers will say choice went away when you still have the "choice" to have a baby and give it away threw adoption, hope that makes sense.

not many make this choice, great if they do. I will not tell a woman how to run their sexual life. women are smart enough to figure that out for themselves. besides if the woman wants to have an active social life she should be able to. besides many people who choose abstinence are not really abstaining from sex, just penetration. they have a very active sexual life in all other areas. this to me is very hypocritical.

I won't tell a woman when to have sex either. I will however say that if she gets pregnant, tough cookies (yea bad wording but it gets the point across). Also I agree its very hypocritical but at least it works from keeping the woman from getting pregnant and thats the sole point.

many times birth control fails, it happens all the time

Thats when responsible people should have a financial safety net, don't jump into things without a safety net and if you do, learn to grow up real fast, because if that person keeps doing things without thinking them threw then they will have more problems that getting knocked up later in life.

no, not irresponsible at all

how is it not irresponsible to have sex without a reasonable back up besides abortion. It's silly if women can think they can just have sex/abortion, have sex/abortion and on and on....thats what is irresponsible, thats what can hurt a woman in the long run.

lots of people are not grown up that are having sex, you really want these people to be parents?

I don't really want them to be no. But then again I don't really want them having sex in the first place, but thats the point. It doesn't matter if they are grown up or not they are when they have sex and get pregnant, might ruin their life, but that is the choice they made. Not easy to except but thats how it works.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:09 AM
 
13,841 posts, read 14,670,215 times
Reputation: 11528
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
Ok i'm not good with quotes so ill just do the bold thing again. I am not good with the quotes either

of course there are consequences to all actions, telling a boss off is no where near being in the position of bearing an unwanted pregnancy. neither is killing someone. you want women to be breeders against their will? that is what you are telling them if you don't give them choice. that or tell them go to a back alley abortionist or take care of it yourself with a coat hanger like in the days before roe v wade

The choice that is being given to women is the first choice: the choice to have sex. Once they cross that line it was their decision and no amount of twisting of words will change that. being sexual is human nature. nothing wrong in that. once a person becomes sexual it is part of their life, just because it may lead to pregnancy is no reason to stop yourself from having it if you want it.

they wanna be fat and lazy that is on them. I would rather pay for the few lazy people cheating welfare then to deny the poor who really need it.

just to be clear i actually agree with you on this don't let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone just brought it up to try and make a point, if you did disagree.

BS a woman does have the choice to do one of three things as it should be. no distraction

This is a complicated one to respond too but I guess I could say thats what I was trying to say in the first place. If you outlaw abortion all the pro-choicers will say choice went away when you still have the "choice" to have a baby and give it away threw adoption, hope that makes sense. I understand what you are saying. abortion will not go away legal or not. you are not old enough to know what like was like for women before abortion was legal. women truly did die, bleeding to death from botched abortions and self induced abortions. you make it illegal and it will happen again. women should not be forced to be so desperate to not be pregnant when they are to seek out a back alley abortion and put their life at risk.

not many make this choice, great if they do. I will not tell a woman how to run their sexual life. women are smart enough to figure that out for themselves. besides if the woman wants to have an active social life she should be able to. besides many people who choose abstinence are not really abstaining from sex, just penetration. they have a very active sexual life in all other areas. this to me is very hypocritical.

I won't tell a woman when to have sex either. I will however say that if she gets pregnant, tough cookies (yea bad wording but it gets the point across). Also I agree its very hypocritical but at least it works from keeping the woman from getting pregnant and thats the sole point. if you are basically having sex except without penetration you really are not abstaining at all you. in the heat of the moment penetration is a very real possibility. which brings me to all the young kids who are with their boyfriend or girl friend and just get carried away, this explains why lots of them are not using birth control, as they had no plans of having sex. they just went to far one night. accidents happen. in both these situation full on sex can happen as easily as turning on a light switch. if you want to be abstain, you should really abstain, otherwise you are just playing with fire.

many times birth control fails, it happens all the time

Thats when responsible people should have a financial safety net, don't jump into things without a safety net and if you do, learn to grow up real fast, because if that person keeps doing things without thinking them threw then they will have more problems that getting knocked up later in life. you sound very reasonable and you think before you act. so many don't. nothing we can do to make them responsible.

no, not irresponsible at all

how is it not irresponsible to have sex without a reasonable back up besides abortion. It's silly if women can think they can just have sex/abortion, have sex/abortion and on and on....thats what is irresponsible, thats what can hurt a woman in the long run.

most women who have an abortion do so with huge thought put into it and it isn't something done lightly. the percentage of women that use abortion as birth control is very slight.

lots of people are not grown up that are having sex, you really want these people to be parents?

I don't really want them to be no. But then again I don't really want them having sex in the first place, but thats the point. It doesn't matter if they are grown up or not they are when they have sex and get pregnant, might ruin their life, but that is the choice they made. Not easy to except but thats how it works.
it isn't up to us if we "don't want them to have sex" we have no control over that. that is why is my child or any young women finds herself pregnant even if it was just because she got carried away one night, I don't think she should have to pay for that mistake along with her baby for the rest of both their lives. that is just compounding the mistake. a young women who has an abortion "learns a lesson" the lesson is for her to interpret.
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