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Old 04-16-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,158 posts, read 17,498,108 times
Reputation: 15361

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
This is almost so illogical, I may have lost intelligence trying to comprehend it.

Lets use an anology to try and make sense of your post.

A group of 8 people go out to lunch. The restaurant selected is on the high price side. When the bill of 200 dollars comes due, 4 of the 8 people say "I dont have enough money to chip in my portion of the bill, the richest people should pick it up". Two of the people say "I can chip in, but only for my portion, and the richest can pay for those other 4 people that didn't pay". The last two people, the most wealthy at the table say "Argh, fine, we will pay the balance".

A few weeks later, the same 8 people make a decision to go out to lunch. 4 of the 4 people (who actually pay the bill) say "Hey, this time, lets go to a cheaper place, then everybody should be able to contribute to the bill, and we won't get stuck with the whole expensive thing".

So in your ridiculous points above. The people that actually paid for their portion of the bill, AND those that pick up the freeloaders portion are ridiculous because:

1. they are upset about people who go to a nice dinner and EXPECT that they pick up the tab.

2. they are selfish because they desire to go to a cheaper place, and expect that those people who don't have as much money can pay for their own meal.


Spoken like a real freeloader.
Great analogy, too bad I can't rep you again.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:26 AM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,061,005 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
This is almost so illogical, I may have lost intelligence trying to comprehend it.

Lets use an anology to try and make sense of your post.

A group of 8 people go out to lunch. The restaurant selected is on the high price side. When the bill of 200 dollars comes due, 4 of the 8 people say "I dont have enough money to chip in my portion of the bill, the richest people should pick it up". Two of the people say "I can chip in, but only for my portion, and the richest can pay for those other 4 people that didn't pay". The last two people, the most wealthy at the table say "Argh, fine, we will pay the balance".

A few weeks later, the same 8 people make a decision to go out to lunch. 4 of the 4 people (who actually pay the bill) say "Hey, this time, lets go to a cheaper place, then everybody should be able to contribute to the bill, and we won't get stuck with the whole expensive thing".

So in your ridiculous points above. The people that actually paid for their portion of the bill, AND those that pick up the freeloaders portion are ridiculous because:

1. they are upset about people who go to a nice dinner and EXPECT that they pick up the tab.

2. they are selfish because they desire to go to a cheaper place, and expect that those people who don't have as much money can pay for their own meal.


Spoken like a real freeloader.
I've never stated my views on the tax system, therefore you cannot make assumptions. What I stated was that the tea party has stated that they are against taxes. Well you can't be against taxes ideologically when you want half of the US to pay more in taxes. I'm not saying they are wrong for believing this, just not honest. If you believe that the rich pay too much in taxes and people who are not rich should pay more, fine, just say it. Just don't bs me and say you are against raising taxes in general, because we all know it's bs.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:29 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,405,375 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
This is almost so illogical, I may have lost intelligence trying to comprehend it.

Lets use an anology to try and make sense of your post.

A group of 8 people go out to lunch. The restaurant selected is on the high price side. When the bill of 200 dollars comes due, 4 of the 8 people say "I dont have enough money to chip in my portion of the bill, the richest people should pick it up". Two of the people say "I can chip in, but only for my portion, and the richest can pay for those other 4 people that didn't pay". The last two people, the most wealthy at the table say "Argh, fine, we will pay the balance".

A few weeks later, the same 8 people make a decision to go out to lunch. 4 of the 4 people (who actually pay the bill) say "Hey, this time, lets go to a cheaper place, then everybody should be able to contribute to the bill, and we won't get stuck with the whole expensive thing".

So in your ridiculous points above. The people that actually paid for their portion of the bill, AND those that pick up the freeloaders portion are ridiculous because:

1. they are upset about people who go to a nice dinner and EXPECT that they pick up the tab.

2. they are selfish because they desire to go to a cheaper place, and expect that those people who don't have as much money can pay for their own meal.


Spoken like a real freeloader.
Excellent!

you saved me from posting and I could not have stated the analogy as well as you did !
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:29 AM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,061,005 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield
Do you believe that half of Americans should pay more in taxes. Yes or no?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
Absolutely
Crazy concept.
Not crazy at all, just don't claim that you are against higher taxes, be honest.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:31 AM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,061,005 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
This is almost so illogical, I may have lost intelligence trying to comprehend it.

Lets use an anology to try and make sense of your post.

A group of 8 people go out to lunch. The restaurant selected is on the high price side. When the bill of 200 dollars comes due, 4 of the 8 people say "I dont have enough money to chip in my portion of the bill, the richest people should pick it up". Two of the people say "I can chip in, but only for my portion, and the richest can pay for those other 4 people that didn't pay". The last two people, the most wealthy at the table say "Argh, fine, we will pay the balance".

A few weeks later, the same 8 people make a decision to go out to lunch. 4 of the 4 people (who actually pay the bill) say "Hey, this time, lets go to a cheaper place, then everybody should be able to contribute to the bill, and we won't get stuck with the whole expensive thing".

So in your ridiculous points above. The people that actually paid for their portion of the bill, AND those that pick up the freeloaders portion are ridiculous because:

1. they are upset about people who go to a nice dinner and EXPECT that they pick up the tab.

2. they are selfish because they desire to go to a cheaper place, and expect that those people who don't have as much money can pay for their own meal.


Spoken like a real freeloader.
So you believe half of Americans are freeloaders and should have their taxes increased. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you, I just wanted to clarify your view.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:40 AM
 
2,229 posts, read 1,368,578 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
[/i]



Not crazy at all, just don't claim that you are against higher taxes, be honest.
You are arguing simply for the sake of arguing. The tea party has never said that they are against taxation. As published by the Tea Party, they are against out of control spending... which results in higher taxation.

Two completely different things.

The tax rate can be lowered uniformely simply be reducing government spending. That is completely different than their second point that taxes should be spread more evenly around to those who enjoy the benefits provided by them.

The Tea Party has not stated that they don't think there should be any taxes, nor have they made the claim that nobody should face a tax increase. The fair tax simply by definition requires that people who currently don't pay any income tax should have to.

Your argument is based around two small soundbites, that you feel contridict each other. However, not only are the two soundbites not related, but you aren't even providing the full story.

Do you work for the media?
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:41 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,405,375 times
Reputation: 8158
I don't believe people should have more taxes with held from their paychecks.

I do object to the Federal govt's generous refunds where you get back more than you paid in.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:42 AM
 
2,229 posts, read 1,368,578 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
So you believe half of Americans are freeloaders and should have their taxes increased. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you, I just wanted to clarify your view.
Absolutely.

There is no reason at all people who enjoy the freedoms provided by this country, and defended by our armies, can chip in some money to sustain the privilege of that protection as an example.

At the same time, we should reduce government spending to reduce the tax burden overall.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:02 PM
 
12,148 posts, read 18,314,594 times
Reputation: 18862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
I've never stated my views on the tax system, therefore you cannot make assumptions. What I stated was that the tea party has stated that they are against taxes. Well you can't be against taxes ideologically when you want half of the US to pay more in taxes. I'm not saying they are wrong for believing this, just not honest. If you believe that the rich pay too much in taxes and people who are not rich should pay more, fine, just say it. Just don't bs me and say you are against raising taxes in general, because we all know it's bs.
I don't see the conflict with the tea party movement on taxes, more taxes for some vs others. Now I see there are several related threads on "Hannity says this..." and "now people are paying less taxes...".

Really, this is the issues, then let us move on to these other threads - the US has a progressive income tax system in which those that make less, pay less in percentage, those that make more, pay more in percentage. Those that make nothing of course pay nothing. OK. Now, on top of that you have bailouts, welfare, entitlement programs, what have you, written into the tax code so that many individual groups and corporations get there tax witholdings back! It's not about taxes per se, it's back to the entitlement and bailout debate. Tax really has nothing to do with it, it's simply the mechanism used to give these entitlements. When one group gets more government entitlements, another group has to pay for it (and, note, they always don't have to pay for it via taxes, because a government is free to spend and print money as it needs, but they do pay for it eventually).

Plainly, what the TeaParty movement is saying is what everyone is saying. It's what you should be saying - stop the targeted bailout and entitlment programs. The result will be less taxes for all (and other benifits). If how you interpret it is that the Tea Pary is saying that some people are not paying enough taxes, then either you are not listening or the movement is not expressing the issue plainly enough.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,871 posts, read 102,258,726 times
Reputation: 32945
These above-average income TPers may be surprised to see their taxes rise under a flat tax system, if they lose all their deductions.
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