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I have friends with kids in Canada... Even though it costs them cash they come down down here if it's ANY thing the least bit serious..
that tells me all I need to know...
Right..... you see this is the advantage of living in a country with a high standard of living but with a social conciense. Good for your friends, if they can afford going to the US to get the care that is great. However, if they did not have the money to afford it, where would you prefer they lived?? What kills North American thinking is the individualistic perception of the world we have. Greed. If people saw the value in the principles of community, even Canada would have a much better health system for all... but somehow we in North America think that to be someone we MUST have more than everyone else, and thus, we come to the conclusion that as long as our wants are met, the rest of the world can sink. This so reminds me of the Titanic movie.
I'm glad to hear from canadians on this issue.. looking back thru the thread its been american points of view and how americans see the canadians system.
I lived in Australia and they have a system like canada as well... and I have to say... it is MUCH better than our current system. In fact, allow the private sector to remain, and they can compete with the social system.. if they want to get patients.. they'll just have to cut costs.... but the social system puts in place a moral responsibility to ALL members of the society. Leaving access to medical care and life or death procedures up to "the markets" determination of who is worthy of it.. is not anyway a society should function. We pay taxes to ensure roads are built.. schools are built.. parks are maintained.. all because it is for the benefit of ALL... healthcare is NOT an option it is a necessity... and you may be right.. the canadian system might not be as quick as our system.. but it is available to all.. and is prioritized well. What good is a quick system if millions of people put off procedures anyway because they cannot afford it? Its a matter of creating social standards that ensures NOBODY falls below, and in canada they are atleast noble enough to say.. "access to healthcare is a right not a priveledge"
so.. let the private sector remain..even when we enact socialized medicine.... let them run their "business" and they can learn to earn customers, just like every other business..
[quote=BigHouse9;885652]No such thing as a free lunch. Someone will have to pay for it. This is a capitalist economy, not socialist. Surely you read all the history books.
Canada is a socialist-capitalist country. It works. If you want to be rich you have to work a little harder. If you are ok being a regular fellow, just work for the bread of the day and you still have health care.
You say "this is a capitalist economy" like it was the best thing. Communism is not good, but neither is Capitalism. Don't fool yourself, even in a capitalist country you are a slave of the governement. That is what we all are at the endof the day. Your freedom is an illusion. If you want to be completly free, I suggest getting lost in the amazonian jungle were noone will ask you for any kind of accountability on anything. There , the only snakes you will have to watch for, are the ones that will kill you in minutes, and they don't measure you by what you have.
By the way, we do pay for healthcare. I pay about 180 a year for healthcare. Plus I pay taxes.
No such thing as a free lunch. Someone will have to pay for it. This is a capitalist economy, not socialist. Surely you read all the history books.
Go move to one of those socialist nations and pay their high taxes and be a puppet to their government. Oh yeah, and as far as bigoted, try one of those open-minded Scandanavian countries. They love to not give jobs to foreigners. So much for open minded and accepting.
The thing that amazes me is that the left ******* about the government all the time and then they want "free" healthcare supplied by the government.
The problem seems to boil down to , " Do we have a right to be healthily "?
The right , says hell no , its not a right , its a privilege , like a drivers permit.
The left , says , hell yes , it should be a " right" , we are supposedly the richest , freest , Country in the World , its the least we can do for our people.
Somewhere in between lies the answer, I say. Politics plays such a huge roll that the two sides will never agree , and , the insurance industry has such a strangle hold on our way of life , that , the best we will ever hope for , is , a balance. We surely don't have it now !
If you had you choice would you rather have brain surgery, open heart surgery or an organ transplant in Canda or the US?
Right.... I would prefer to have it where I can afford it. Where would you want to have an open heart surgery or an organ transplant if you had no insurance?? In the US or Canada??
I'm glad to hear from canadians on this issue.. looking back thru the thread its been american points of view and how americans see the canadians system.
I lived in Australia and they have a system like canada as well... and I have to say... it is MUCH better than our current system. In fact, allow the private sector to remain, and they can compete with the social system.. if they want to get patients.. they'll just have to cut costs.... but the social system puts in place a moral responsibility to ALL members of the society. Leaving access to medical care and life or death procedures up to "the markets" determination of who is worthy of it.. is not anyway a society should function. We pay taxes to ensure roads are built.. schools are built.. parks are maintained.. all because it is for the benefit of ALL... healthcare is NOT an option it is a necessity... and you may be right.. the canadian system might not be as quick as our system.. but it is available to all.. and is prioritized well. What good is a quick system if millions of people put off procedures anyway because they cannot afford it? Its a matter of creating social standards that ensures NOBODY falls below, and in canada they are atleast noble enough to say.. "access to healthcare is a right not a priveledge"
so.. let the private sector remain..even when we enact socialized medicine.... let them run their "business" and they can learn to earn customers, just like every other business..
I think you are right in that freedom to americans IS and illusion. I have lived in other countries that protect and foster more freedoms than we have here, and there is a sense of social awareness and responsibility. America is a nation of extremes.. and you're exactly right.. communism or capitalism.. either way you're going to be a slave to a system.. whether it be a social system.. or a "money talks" system....communism doesn't work because people are inherently greedy, so ensuring it STAYS a level playing field is virtually impossible.. not to mention the level of demonization it has recieved, so rather than being objective and analytical.. we as americans have blindly jumped on the extreme opposite causing millions of underpriveledge to suffer, and knocking ourselves off the top of the list when it comes to living standards and most livable places. Canadian and Australian cities round off the top ten..
also, one as to look at.. perhaps jobs will come back to american workers when the added costs of healtcare are taken off of a company. employing an american has become expensive, and we further devalue ourselves in the global market because we impose these added costs. The american employee just might become more competitive... There's a reason GM plants opened up shop in Canada.. there's little difference between the output of a canadian and american worker, but there is a HUGE difference in the overhead cost between the two...
No such thing as a free lunch. Someone will have to pay for it. This is a capitalist economy, not socialist. Surely you read all the history books.
Canada is a socialist-capitalist country. It works. If you want to be rich you have to work a little harder. If you are ok being a regular fellow, just work for the bread of the day and you still have health care.
You say "this is a capitalist economy" like it was the best thing. Communism is not good, but neither is Capitalism. Don't fool yourself, even in a capitalist country you are a slave of the governement. That is what we all are at the endof the day. Your freedom is an illusion. If you want to be completly free, I suggest getting lost in the amazonian jungle were noone will ask you for any kind of accountability on anything. There , the only snakes you will have to watch for, are the ones that will kill you in minutes, and they don't measure you by what you have.
By the way, we do pay for healthcare. I pay about 180 a year for healthcare. Plus I pay taxes.
No free lunch anywhere . The people here in the US that have healthcare provided by their companies, are the ones that speak the loudest for things to stay as they are. I am sure that if it were taken away , they would be singing another tune.
So many workers are insulated from the real world , by having it all provided for them. As the costs increase , and as Companies start to push the burden of health care onto the workers, things will change. Big business says it can not compete , in a world market , unless the workers pay more, or all , the coverage. Maybe thats what it will take , for things to change.....
Well, of course. Doctors don't work for free. They have to eat too.
Gosh .... Nobody is stupid enough to ask them to do it for free...Canadian doctors get paid, perhaps not as well as American doctors, but I am sure they sleep better at night knowing that they didnt rip off someone during the day or turned anyone away just because they didnt have the right ammount of money.
No free lunch anywhere . The people here in the US that have healthcare provided by their companies, are the ones that speak the loudest for things to stay as they are. I am sure that if it were taken away , they would be singing another tune.
So many workers are insulated from the real world , by having it all provided for them. As the costs increase , and as Companies start to push the burden of health care onto the workers, things will change. Big business says it can not compete , in a world market , unless the workers pay more, or all , the coverage. Maybe thats what it will take , for things to change.....
I think if they realized how close they are to losing their jobs to outsourcing.. hindsight is always 20/20.. so lets do some foresighting...they'd sing a different tune as well if and when their job does slips out from underneath them. Ask any of the thousands of Micron employees here in boise,(who have been layed off), about thinking their job and insurance thru that job were reliable.... with free trade agreements, companies are realizing that employing an american has a lot of added costs.. when they can eliminate those costs by setting up shop somewhere else..
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