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That by now is old. I work for a non-profit in DC working to repeal DADT. I'm also a veteran, so believe me I heard all the arguments on both sides of the fence. To me, the pro DADT crowd seriously believes that the gays will turn our military into a 24 hour orgy with sissies. We just had a huge lobby day with around 300 gays vets that went to the Hill to tell members of congress their stories. I truly believe that if the American public could see how professional we are, and how much we share common goals they would no longer be afraid of allowing us to serve openly in the military.
DADT is destroying too many lives, both personal and professional, and it needs to go.
I was with you until the last sentence. I can understand it being a hindrance to the gay who wants to serve openly in the military but how is it "destroying lives"?
Just leave men and women in separate barracks. Ever been in a gym P.E. class where you all showered together afterwards. There were gay guys in there. Maybe even they snuck a peek at your pecker.
Were you violated? Doubtful.
Military are trained professionals. They will be just fine.
So no more need to separate the guys and girls showers anymore? look, you cannot say we need to separate mena and women, and not men and gays, or bisexuals and straights.
Your way is to put them all together, gives them orders not to engage in sex or sexual harassment, and toss all the undisciplined offenders in the brig? Sophomoric to say the least.
I was with you until the last sentence. I can understand it being a hindrance to the gay who wants to serve openly in the military but how is it "destroying lives"?
Lets say you have 20 years in the military, multiple tours in Iraq, maybe even a Purple Heart. If someone found out you were gay? Zero benefits, kicked out. Forget about the GI Bill. Have PTSD? Find someone who cares, bc Uncle Sam knows your gay. It doesn't matter if your record is squeaky clean. Someone told and now you're out. Sometimes even given an other than honorable discharge.
Or maybe you are deployed to Iraq and have a partner back home. You die in combat. He/she will not receive any benefits either. No assistance with helping you take care of your finances, counseling or any other help families need. Its just *********r partner no matter how long you've been together. Your partner may not even be notified. Oh well. Tough luck.
You think these cases are just trying to tug at your heart and rarely happen, but yes they do happen more often than anyone thinks. Would we allow this to happen to straight service members? No, the public would be up in arms. But since they are happening to gay service members, we turn our head. Very sad.
Are you saying that in the military, if someone merely reports another as "being gay" that is enough to get the person thrown out? That sounds like a "he said/she said" situation. Is there no requirement for some reliable evidence or witnesses? If a gay person makes a hit on someone of the same sex and is reported, that is another matter. Under the rules that now exist, I would certainly expect gays to be extremely discreet, if they want to stay in.
Are you saying that in the military, if someone merely reports another as "being gay" that is enough to get the person thrown out? That sounds like a "he said/she said" situation. Is there no requirement for some reliable evidence or witnesses? If a gay person makes a hit on someone of the same sex and is reported, that is another matter. Under the rules that now exist, I would certainly expect gays to be extremely discreet, if they want to stay in.
A new policy has been put into effect as of a few weeks ago that would no longer allow third parties (chaplains, medical professionals, counselors, police) to report a known homosexual to their command. But this is still very new, thousands of service members since 1993 had been kicked out by investigations started by 3rd parties.
Before that, if someone of a higher rank than you were to suspect you were gay and start an investigation, they would be able to search your computer and personal belongings for evidence that you are gay.Yes, even without your permission.Sometimes they find it, sometimes they don't. And in many cases, DADT is used as a tool for blackmail. If someone in your unit were to find out your orientation, they had the choice to report you to your command. They in turn, would be required by law to start an investigation. So sometimes it's all about who you **** off. It happens all the time.
And yes, as a gay man formerly in the military, I had to be extremely discreet to the point of paranoia about what I said, who I hung out with, and what kind of belongings I kept.
I can well understand the lengths a gay person might have to go to hide their orientation, if they want to serve in the military. Nevertheless, repealing DADT is a touchy situation and since the job of our military is to defend the country,IMO that must take precedence over all else. On a more personal level, one soldier told me didn't give a hoot one way or the other as long as no one of the same sex hit on him and another one years ago (before it became in issue) told me he did not want to be in a unit that had an openly gay man in it. It's a dilemma, to be sure.......
I can well understand the lengths a gay person might have to go to hide their orientation, if they want to serve in the military. Nevertheless, repealing DADT is a touchy situation and since the job of our military is to defend the country,IMO that must take precedence over all else. On a more personal level, one soldier told me didn't give a hoot one way or the other as long as no one of the same sex hit on him and another one years ago (before it became in issue) told me he did not want to be in a unit that had an openly gay man in it. It's a dilemma, to be sure.......
This question is not aimed at you per say but, if protecting our country is our number one priority then why are we wasting our time and money debating this subject? Why are we kicking out service members with mission critical MOS's??? Does it matter if you Doc is gay? Does it matter if an arabic linguist is gay???
I was with you until the last sentence. I can understand it being a hindrance to the gay who wants to serve openly in the military but how is it "destroying lives"?
This might not destroy her life, but coming out of the closet may certainly cost her a lot of money:
Quote:
Port Washington High School graduate Sara Isaacson worked for the past eight years toward the goal of becoming an Army doctor like her grandfather. She said she knew she was giving up that dream when she made the decision in January to tell the leader of her Army ROTC program that she is a lesbian.
The University of North Carolina senior's decision might also cost her $79,265.14 - the price of seven semesters of out-of-state tuition, books and others expenses, all paid for by an Army ROTC scholarship.
I use the word "destroy" as a metaphor of course. Though some would argue that yes, ending someone's career and leaving them high and dry is "destroying".
This question is not aimed at you per say but, if protecting our country is our number one priority then why are we wasting our time and money debating this subject? Why are we kicking out service members with mission critical MOS's??? Does it matter if you Doc is gay? Does it matter if an arabic linguist is gay???
It started out with me defending Obama not having acted on the issue yet, with the an early poster saying that since 70% of the country say it should be repealed, it should be repealed and me saying it wasn't a decision to be made by popular vote but at the highest levels and on the advice of the top military commanders. Then it evolved into a back-and-forth conversation between you and me and I was very happy to get some input from someone who was actually affected by the policy.
To answer the question, I have stated many times on this board that I don't care who a person sleeps with or forms a pair bond with--it is none of my business. I have had countless interactions throughout my life with gay people, both professionally and personally. However, I was never in the military so I cannot even speculate what effect repealing DADT might have overall. Military life is not civilian life and those who choose it as a career have a mindset that is different from the ordinary non-military person who is free to go wherever they want, change jobs, move to another town, etc. The entire mission of the military is national defense. I haven't applauded Obama for very much but I do applaud him for the serious consideration he is giving to this issue.
A long time ago someone gave me some good advice when I had a difficult decision to make: What have you got to gain? What have you got to lose? Whatever you decide, you'll have to live with the consequences. This gal decided her personal integrity was worth what she knew she would have to pay for it. There was probably some kind of contract involved that had a clause in it that addressed this kind of situation. Had she waited before coming out of the closet, who knows, maybe it wouldn't have cost her so dearly. Not saying this is either fair or unfair--only that she made her decision and now she has to live with the consequences.
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Sophomoric to say the least.
