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Old 05-19-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,145 posts, read 3,908,340 times
Reputation: 2468

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKUKUK View Post
That's how it seems to me. Free trade has done nothing to benefit this country. I can't find a jacket made in America anymore. My old Ford, but if I were to buy its successor today, it would be made in Mexico. There is no American television brand left. The rubber, steel, and chemical industry have been shipped south, west, and east for decades now...

WE NEED REAL FAIR TRADE.
Free trade has had tremendous generous benefits for this country, and has allowed American's to enjoy a level and standard of living far surpassing any other. That is why you can't find a jacket made in America anymore. Your old Ford, unless it's a Fiesta is manufactured mainly in America still. There are some F-series trucks manufactured in Mexico, or Vietnam (most of those go to China; while England supplies Europe) but that allows the sedans in Ford's line to be manufactured in the United States and keep Ford open for business. You did notice that Ford (for all their shortcomings as vehicles ) didn't take any federal assistance, didn't you?
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
33,592 posts, read 28,798,195 times
Reputation: 15516
txgolfer130 -

I respectfully disagree with your statement. Restoring our industry behind a tariff barrier the results in a fair trading relationship with other countries will strengthen our country and by recovering manufacturing as a way of creating wealth will restore a broad based prosperity instead of our wildly unbalanced current economy that favors finance over industry. We will return to a nation of creditors instead of debtors because a well paid manufacturing labor force will have the money to save instead of borrow.

The idea that tariffs destroy economies is a myth perpetrated by the international traders and the financiers that back their operations. The primary loses in a fair trade situation as compared with a “free” trade are the speculators taking advantage of the impoverishment of the low labor cost countries.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: The Lakes
2,375 posts, read 2,847,875 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Free trade has had tremendous generous benefits for this country, and has allowed American's to enjoy a level and standard of living far surpassing any other. That is why you can't find a jacket made in America anymore. Your old Ford, unless it's a Fiesta is manufactured mainly in America still. There are some F-series trucks manufactured in Mexico, or Vietnam (most of those go to China; while England supplies Europe) but that allows the sedans in Ford's line to be manufactured in the United States and keep Ford open for business. You did notice that Ford (for all their shortcomings as vehicles ) didn't take any federal assistance, didn't you?
The Ford Fusion is made right across the border in Mexico, many of their cars are also made in Canada.

Also, we had a far greater advantage in standard of living when our jobs were still around. Right now we're being passed up by the Scandinavian countries, Canada, Japan, among many others.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ford and I'd never drive anything but American, but using cheap Mexican labor over the border should be punishable as using it on this side of the border is, just in the form of charging more to make up for taxes lost from the lack of those American jobs, the lack of that property being occupied (property taxes), etc. etc.

Don't tell me that losing manufacturing has given us a better standard of living. I'm a Detroiter and a Kentuckian. Here in Lexington alone we've consolidated and shipped off thousands of jobs alone, and we're growing at an uncontrollable (for Fayette-Urban gov.) rate.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: The Lakes
2,375 posts, read 2,847,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
txgolfer130 -

I respectfully disagree with your statement. Restoring our industry behind a tariff barrier the results in a fair trading relationship with other countries will strengthen our country and by recovering manufacturing as a way of creating wealth will restore a broad based prosperity instead of our wildly unbalanced current economy that favors finance over industry. We will return to a nation of creditors instead of debtors because a well paid manufacturing labor force will have the money to save instead of borrow.

The idea that tariffs destroy economies is a myth perpetrated by the international traders and the financiers that back their operations. The primary loses in a fair trade situation as compared with a “free” trade are the speculators taking advantage of the impoverishment of the low labor cost countries.
Exactly what I'm saying. When we shifted to a debtor nation, our economy fluctuated more often and dropped to much more extreme lows than before. China's economy is still growing, on the other hand, as it has the money to buy even our debt.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
33,592 posts, read 28,798,195 times
Reputation: 15516
The FORD Motor company is no longer an American industry. It is an international industry that makes some products in America. FORD is a pioneer in the internationalization of industry under the auspices of a "free trade" dominated finance system operating within the unregulated New World Order created by the international financiers.

Just look at what they are doing instead of listening to what they are saying. Then trust your own judgment.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: The Lakes
2,375 posts, read 2,847,875 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The FORD Motor company is no longer an American industry. It is an international industry that makes some products in America. FORD is a pioneer in the internationalization of industry under the auspices of a "free trade" dominated finance system operating within the unregulated New World Order created by the international financiers.

Just look at what they are doing instead of listening to what they are saying. Then trust your own judgment.
I don't believe in a New World Order, so to speak, but definitely feel that the people are puppeteered around by some of these scum.

Ford has been dealing in Europe for decades, its a shame that they've moved even a small bit of production of cars for sale in the US out of this country though.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,038 posts, read 4,464,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Not if it is a 1 to 1 ratio on imports.
When they go over the quota, they are taxed on those imports over what we send them.

Same is applied to us, if we export more to another country, than we import from another country.
We import more than we export. That means we will have to cut back on our ability to import goods. we cut back on imported cars and TVs the prices will sky rocket.

Would also mean we might have to cut down on our imports of food.
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Old 05-19-2010, 01:57 PM
 
228 posts, read 130,679 times
Reputation: 96
Tariffs may seem like a good idea, but the problem is that it assumes that if you apply a tariff against one product that suppliers will immediately start producing more here. The problem with that is you end up raising the cost of the good and you may not even see those jobs come back because there are tons of other factors that determine in getting a company to come back to the United States. And yes, there is always the possibility of a tariff war, which would just by ugly for the consumer.

In my opinion, we need to do two things to make this more business friendly:

-Repeal the phony free trade acts. Despite their name, they really aren't free trade. Acts like NAFTA and CAFTA are free trade agreements, which means there are provisions and favoritism involved. Free trade means no government is involved and no treaties are necessary.

Free Trade versus Free-trade Agreements - Mises Economics Blog

-The other thing to do is repeal or drastically cut the corporate income tax. At 35%, the US has the 2nd highest in the world. The big problem is that is you're a corporation overseas, you have no incentive to move that money back to the United States because you'll get taxed. The best thing to do is get rid of it.

Does tax code send U.S. jobs offshore? - USATODAY.com
Quote:
At issue is the U.S. tax code's treatment of profits earned by foreign subsidiaries of American corporations. Profits earned in the United States are subject to the 35% corporate tax. But multinational corporations can defer paying U.S. taxes on their overseas profits until they return them to the USA — transfers that often don't happen for years. General Electric, for example, has $62 billion in "undistributed earnings" parked offshore, according to recent Securities and Exchange Commission filings. Drug giant Pfizer boasts $60 billion. ExxonMobil has $56 billion.

"If you had two companies in Pittsburgh that both were going to expand capacity and create 100 jobs, our tax code puts the company who chooses to put the plant in Pittsburgh at a competitive disadvantage over the company that chooses to move to a tax haven," says former White House economist Gene Sperling, a Clinton adviser.

The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and its corporate tax code has a well-earned reputation for complexity. But despite the high rate, the U.S. takes in less annual revenue from corporate taxes, measured as a percentage of economic output, than almost all other major economies. Part of the explanation for that shortfall is the allowance for corporations to postpone taxes on foreign income.

"The problem is the company gets to deduct the cost of doing business right away, but they don't have to pay tax on the profits until they bring them back," says economist Jason Furman, director of The Hamilton Project in Washington, D.C.
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Cherokee Nation
28,306 posts, read 10,995,828 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
We import more than we export. That means we will have to cut back on our ability to import goods. we cut back on imported cars and TVs the prices will sky rocket.

Would also mean we might have to cut down on our imports of food.

No need to cut back. Just pay the tariff if you want it, compared to something made in the USA.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,145 posts, read 3,908,340 times
Reputation: 2468
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
txgolfer130 -

I respectfully disagree with your statement. Restoring our industry behind a tariff barrier the results in a fair trading relationship with other countries will strengthen our country and by recovering manufacturing as a way of creating wealth will restore a broad based prosperity instead of our wildly unbalanced current economy that favors finance over industry. We will return to a nation of creditors instead of debtors because a well paid manufacturing labor force will have the money to save instead of borrow.

The idea that tariffs destroy economies is a myth perpetrated by the international traders and the financiers that back their operations. The primary loses in a fair trade situation as compared with a “free” trade are the speculators taking advantage of the impoverishment of the low labor cost countries.
Respectfully the only way a 1 to 1 tariff set up works is IF all things are equal. Labor, resources, infrastructure, distribution ALL must be equal. Otherwise there are not only inefficiencies in the system, but opportunities for profit taking and a break down in your system.

A tariff barrier as you say will not result in fair trading relationships. Manufacturing returning to the United States in ANY meaningful form or fashion is a pipe dream. That simple act of returning textile, steel, construction industries to their former "glory" will destroy the American economy on an accelerated pace and doom us to become not creditors, but huge debtors crushed under the weight of our own infrastructure. For example in textiles: Pants, shirts, shoes are returned to the continental U.S. to be manufactured. The current avg. cost for say a pair of Nike's (since they are my favorite punching bag) is $50 per unit retail. Wholesale manufacturing cost is $12/unit. Your total avg. profit is $38/unit. Agree? Going forward ceteris peribus employees are hired 1 for 1. Nike's FIXED COSTS now rise per employee cost from $1.18/hr (excluding health-care) to $7.50/hr[Oregon] (excluding health-care). You have now increased Nike's fixed costs by 14% just in labor alone. Now you apply that across the board as raw materials are re-routed, supply lines and points are shifted to companies that must abide by the minimum wage laws just as Nike does. Sales force, increased distribution costs, warehousing cost increases, health-care costs, 401k charges for exempt employees, etc., etc. These are all FIXED COSTS. Now do you still think there is a TAp of $38/unit?

It goes further, but do we really need to go further? The macro of the "event" will cause a major shift in our standard of living to say the least.
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