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Just my thoughts.
America will over come the race issue when a presidents policies can be opposed without the supportes of the policy decry the opposition as racist.
Almost unimaginable. Policy will never play more than a minor role. What has to change is the attitude of the people--all of the people. And you can't legislate that.
To assume it is the color of the skin that is the problem is part of the problem. Looking into and finding out the cause is part of the solution. Is there criminal propensity in many heavily black populated areas? Yes, especially when those areas are low income areas.
To just say Black people are more prone to this or that, is sweeping the real problems under the rug, because one is just figuring well, it is because they are black. They are not asking the real questions, which is why? Why in these type of areas are black people having higher crime rates, why in these areas are black people having so many unwed teen mothers etc....
It is in the question of WHY, that one will start to find solutions.
I can't agree more. But if the answers to why were explained to you, would you even listen? There has been plenty of research done to try to explain human behavioral differences. There is a lot of proof that your genes have a large role on your eventual personality/disposition. Of course environmental factors do also play a large role.
If you could put copies of the same exact person in different environments, the result would be different people. That behave, think, and react differently from each other.
But, you could create the exact same environment and put different people in those environments, and the result would not be the same. Because individuals are unique, and the way they behave, think, and react tends to be different from each other despite their identical environments.
This pattern can easily be seen in intelligence. Where some people are born more intelligent than others. But if you put an intelligent person in an environment favorable to the developement of intelligence, their intelligence would tend to exceed others in less favorable environments. On the other hand, you can't take someone of very low intelligence and throw them into a favorable environment and expect them to come out a genius, or even average. It just doesn't work that way.
Why? Because genetics plays an extremely large roll in your intelligence, behavior, talents, abilities, inclinations, and of course physical characteristics.
Now, the question isn't whether these things are true or not. The question is whether certain population groups tend to differ genetically from other population groups, at least in more ways than just the color of their skin. So, do they?
Everyone knows how much we differ physically. Everyone can see it, theres no reason to try to prove or disprove it. There is no one saying that a persons research is racist and incorrect when you assert that West Africans noses are wider than European noses on average. No one calls foul when you assert that East asians tend to be shorter than Europeans. Why? Because everyone already knows it, its easily proven, and generally, it doesn't cause any bad feelings from one group to another.
But what else is different? How about eye color? Eye socket shape? Head shape? Head size? Hair thickness? Hair shape? Hair color? Lip shape/size? Ears, mouth, teeth, muscle density, muscle function(fast twitch/slow twitch), lung capacity, daily exercise needs, muscle definition, leanness, height, facial hair, body hair, probability of baldness(alopecia), arm/leg length proportion, butt size, genetalia size, hip size/width, gestation period, probability of certain cancers, probability of heart disease, infant mortality rate, speed at which a baby learns to sit up, crawl, walk, tooth developement, age of puberty. And the list goes on and on and on. And these are just physical characteristics that have been proven time and again to be true. That doesn't include genetic disorders like sickle-cell anemia(africans), tay-sachs(jews), etc.
If our physical characteristics can seem so different. Why is it to be believed that our mental characteristics are identical? Why do we keep telling ourselves that our only differences are on the outside, that we are all the same on the inside? Do you knowledgeable and intelligent people honestly believe that?
Heres the truth, regardless of if you want to believe it or not. Young African-American men tend to be more impulsive than white men and asian men. This is mostly an effect of the amount of testosterone their bodies produce, and how the testosterone receptors in their bodies function. This testosterone affects how their mind develops, and can have an affect on the standard measurement of intelligence.
Men and womens brains tend to be very different. The size of certain parts of their brains tend to be of varying sizes. Which is why men tend to be more visual. They tend to call this "spatial reasoning".
An interesting thing is, at conception, all humans are girls. Because without testosterone, all humans would develop into females. Testosterone causes the male "parts" to develop, and for the female parts to basically die out. This testosterone affects more than just your outward physical characteristics, it affects the developement of your brain also. Men needed to have better "spatial reasoning" since they were hunters/gatherers, where women did not.
Now that we have covered most of the bases of how we are all different. Do you really still believe we are all the same? That somehow only environmental components are to blame for all of the worlds problems?
It is impossible to make every environment the same for everyone, and as long as the environment isn't the same, people will continue to say environments are the cause, and they will reject any other evidence to the contrary. And as long as being a racist(racialist)is denounced as the largest evil a person can commit. And as long as any scientist that either releases his data about race, or is attempting to do research on race, is immediately given death threats or fired from their establishment because of the taboo that is race. Then we will never actually know what exactly the "why" is.
I know where you are going Red but, watch out, it is a VERY slippery slope. There are geniuses out there that are as black as night. There are also gangbangers that are literally as white as snow. Ok, those are exeptions. Their mere existence however rattles the underpinings of an unqualified genetic excuse for attainment. Ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. I would like to see the racial restrictions that are currently being place on black people lifted. When and if that is done, stand back and watch for a few generations. If you are correct there won't be any change in the incarceration rates, the unwed pregnancy rates or poverty indices. If I am right there will be profound changes in all those markers and in others I didn't mention.
To assume it is the color of the skin that is the problem is part of the problem. Looking into and finding out the cause is part of the solution. Is there criminal propensity in many heavily black populated areas? Yes, especially when those areas are low income areas.
To just say Black people are more prone to this or that, is sweeping the real problems under the rug, because one is just figuring well, it is because they are black. They are not asking the real questions, which is why? Why in these type of areas are black people having higher crime rates, why in these areas are black people having so many unwed teen mothers etc....
It is in the question of WHY, that one will start to find solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
So, you have no idea what I am talking about? No shock there. Your "ideas" are all based on the person being black, but totally ignores the fact that the black people you refer to are those that come from poor areas and crime is a naturally higher in such areas due to the economic situation. When it comes to the higher numbers in prison this is due to two main reasons; the first is that the poor are driven to crime at a higher rate and the second is due to the fact that those without money do not have the money to pay for a good lawyer that can get them a lesser sentence, probation or even aquited which happens less often with those with a good lawyer. You entire post was pointing to one "fact" to explain your "idea" and that is blacks are somehow born with some sort of gene that makes them more likely to be a criminal or lazy but fail to supply any viable source to prove it. The reason you did not supply any science to back up your claim is because there is none, statistics are not proof of your "FACTS" they are only indicators that poor people are pushed to commit crimes at a higher rate than those that are not poor in live in more afluent areas. Dance around the core meaning of your post all you wish, you are not fooling anyone.
Casper
Wow. Seems like the race baiters are a constant part of this board. There is also an extreme lack of ability to understand what is being posted. When someone says X,Y, and Z are indicators of criminal behaviour and are all present in large numbers within the community of A, it is not because of the color of the skin, its because of societal reasons. But you skipped that. I never said it was due to skin color, I pointed to the facts of what statistically is present within the black community. People will see and read what they want to. Keep your head in the sand.
There is no doubt in my mind that racism and bigotry is alive and well on this forum and in this country. Racism is the one word that can punch a lot of buttons.
Obama: I've seen him called Hussein, the Kenyan, Hitler and various other derogatory names referring to his race and religion. Conversely, no one has ever mentioned Bush's religion or anything having to do with his race. He's been called a lot of bad names but nothing like Obama.
If you don't like Obama, there are a lot of names you can call him without referring to the above. And do you really believe if he was white, the birther people would even exist?
The Tea Party- I've seen them called racist on several occasions. Funny thing is, I know several people who used to be in the Tea Party but gave up. They feel a great idea was hijacked by ultra conservatives with their own agendas. The people I know were all races, party affiliations, religious beliefs and nationalities. They all had one thing in common. They are tired of getting taxed to death. A great idea gone down the drain. They are tired of seeing the caricatures of Obama, being called racists, Uncle Toms and every other insult imaginable. That's not what they signed up for. Some are trying to hang in there hoping for the best. I wish them luck.
Gay bashing-Very big on here. Not intelligent discussions. Name calling and again dergoatory names used. Whatever happened to live and let live?
Conservatives calling the liberals racists. Liberals calling the conservative racists. And the real racists getting a good laugh. Just calling someone a conservative or liberal is meant as demeaning.
God seems to have become a dirty word. Again insults fly if a person seems to express an opinion either way.
And now illegal immigration. Those against it must be racists. Doesn't make any difference that the illlegals are breaking the law, sucking money from us and have added to the crime rate. Arizona is a pariah. I am sure everyone against the Arizona law has read it and also the Federal law is so closely resembles. Yup. It has to be racism.
And don't forget sexism. It seems to be rearing it's ugly head lately.
Just read a Jew bashing forum. And let's not foget the commies. I do think people need to look up that word and understand what it really means before they go throwing it around.
Maybe someday we will live in a land with no isms.
I know where you are going Red but, watch out, it is a VERY slippery slope. There are geniuses out there that are as black as night. There are also gangbangers that are literally as white as snow. Ok, those are exeptions. Their mere existence however rattles the underpinings of an unqualified genetic excuse for attainment. Ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. I would like to see the racial restrictions that are currently being place on black people lifted. When and if that is done, stand back and watch for a few generations. If you are correct there won't be any change in the incarceration rates, the unwed pregnancy rates or poverty indices. If I am right there will be profound changes in all those markers and in others I didn't mention.
H
I am unsure of what racial restrictions are being imposed on the blacks of today. I do admit that black culture is largely to blame for many of the problems of blacks today. I do also believe that genetics does play a role in many of the problems that blacks have in our society.
I am white, but from a genetic point-of-view. I would say that Asians are "wired" better for success in modern societies. Asians tend to have the lowest testosterone levels, making them less probable of being impulsive(which is one of the largest determinants for violent behavior). At the same time, their higher average intelligence levels(which is largely tied in with their larger brain capacity), especially in the field of reasoning/conceptualizing, makes them the best suited in a society built on technology.
Which should be of no real surprise. When Europeans explored Asia they were impressed by their cities, their cultures, and their technology. Much of the technology of the world came from Asia, and more and more technological innovations are still pouring out of Asia every year. On the other hand, when Europeans went to many other areas of the world. They saw nakedness and hardly any semblance of a society.
My opinion is largely based on averages of these groups and not the exceptions. Think of humans as being kind of like dogs. German Shepherds tend to be smart but protective. Golden retrievers tend to be smart but not protective/aggressive. And there are Chihuahua's which are both stupid and aggressive. Of course there are some Chihuahua's that are smart and passive. And some Golden retrievers that are dumb and aggressive. But its much less common.
If these dogs could talk and learn, the aggressive dogs might be able to control their aggression. But their propensity for aggressiveness would always be there. Whereas the passive dogs might get tired of people calling them a wuss, and decide to attempt to be more aggressive. But their real dog instincts would point them into being sweet and passive.
I basically see humans that way. Because of genetics, certain groups of people as a whole, are just more predisposed to behave in certain ways. These behaviors may have been more acceptable in more primitive times, but they have no value in a modern society. Which is why we spend so much time trying to suppress them.
Lastly, intelligence. East Asians just have a higher average capacity of what we define as intelligence(which is reasoning and conceptualizing). If intelligence was reaction speed and the ability to run quickly. Then Africans would tend to be the most intelligent people on earth.
But of course, the actual differences between groups are generally marginal enough for most people to be able to ignore them. And the people who don't want to ignore them are told they should ignore them, on the premise that, it doesn't help society if it was true. So we should declare it to be false, and attack anyone who says otherwise.
BTW, life sucks. No one hates the inequities of life more than I do. I am not any sort of supremacist, in fact, I don't think very highly of myself at all. I actually would love to live in your fairytale world where life is supposed to be fair, probably even more than you do. Most of the time when I start thinking about how unfair the world is, I just want to blow the whole damn place up. I mean, I don't want to actually hurt anyone but..
I always find something silly about life. They always say if you kill yourself, that it is selfish, because you are ending your pain by putting others in pain(the people who love you and will miss you). But if every single human died right this second and without pain. What would it really matter? There would just be no pain. No one would miss you, and it wouldn't "ruin anyones life". It wouldn't matter at all. Just like if you were never born, or your parents were never born, or humans never existed. Or if the Earth never existed. It really doesn't matter at all. Things only matter because you affect the lives of others. If there were no other lives to affect, then your life is absolutely meaningless.
You do not believe that races are equal, and you base it on genetics, however, you have no scientific proof to back up any of your claims. Yes, I know that you might send me a bunch of nonsense on Wikipedia. I still don't get you. When people are raised with the same privileges or lack of privileges and all the variables are exactly the same, then we will know if they can succeed or fail equally. Until then, we will not know. I personally think all races are equal. I also know that you do not and never will agree. As long as there are people that think the way that you do, America will continue to have race problems.
Just my thoughts.
America will over come the race issue when a presidents policies can be opposed without the supportes of the policy decry the opposition as racist.
Every country has race problems unless it is made up of only one race. That is true now and will always be true because there will always be fools that consider someone of another race as inferior.
I don't hear many criminals blaming racism for their troubles. They are too busy with more important things like staying alive. The voices you hear decrying racism are voices like mine. People who have stayed in school, put in the time but time and time again are passed up for promotion (if we even have a job to be promoted in) etc. "Poor life decisions" is a "get out" for white people to explain why more than half of the 2.2 million people in prison are black, despite the fact that black people are ~11% of the population. Why are Hispanics jailed much less than blacks? Because they have work! It might be exploitation of the worst kind, but it is paid work! Do you ever hear of a black person that is working take time off to sell drugs or keep their mugging skills sharp? Even the laziest math student can also see that something is skewed when, as crime rates plummet all across the country, the incarceration rates for all races except blacks has plateaued. Still, you won't ever hear them complaining. Mostly they live their lives believing no one cares. Mostly they are correct.
H
Thanks for proving my point. Also, we hardly ever hear of Asians blaming their problems on racism. Only Blacks, and it gets a little tiring when you see all your tax dollars going to their neighborhood. 3 shootings yesterday in my town, all Black, not one witness to be found. Whatever, with attitudes like that who cares? We shouldn't, they obviously don't.
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