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I suppose none of the conservatives here checked out the platform of Ralph Nader when he ran in 2004 and 2008. He was more hard line against illegal immigration than Bush or Kerry in 2004 or McCain and Obama in 2008. When Pat Buchanan interviewed Nader, he was surprised how much they agreed on immigration issues. If illegal immigration really affected how most people vote, Nader would've gotten more votes from conservatives. The fact that he didn't shows that most voters don't put much of a priority on immigration issues either way.
The wages that illegal immigrants "push down" are actually already so low that they have little domestic competition for them. These are the menial labor, domestic service and agricultural jobs that tend to go unfilled without a ready source of unskilled foreign labor. I know that as recently as three years ago, we had produce rotting in the fields in Colorado because of a crackdown on illegal immigration, and no domestic workers willing to do the job. This simple fact is the reason why so many thoughtful people (to include many Republicans) support a "guest worker" program.
Not all illegal immigrants are poor ignorant bean pickers. We have illegal aliens in this country who are skilled craftsman, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, construction workers etc... and they are depressing the wages in those professions.
The problem with "common sense" is that it's not very common, and it rarely makes sense.
Because most of this is, frankly, a red herring.
We are a capitalist system. And as such, low cost labor equals competitive advantage. But if you think that the issue of "Wages are being pushed down by cheap labor" is an illegal immigration issue, you're not paying very close attention.
The wages that illegal immigrants "push down" are actually already so low that they have little domestic competition for them. These are the menial labor, domestic service and agricultural jobs that tend to go unfilled without a ready source of unskilled foreign labor. I know that as recently as three years ago, we had produce rotting in the fields in Colorado because of a crackdown on illegal immigration, and no domestic workers willing to do the job. This simple fact is the reason why so many thoughtful people (to include many Republicans) support a "guest worker" program.
The real wages we need to be concerned about are not those for picking strawberries. They are those for manufacturing television sets or writing computer programs. And in this case (again, because we are a capitalist system) the simple truth is that if people can't come to those jobs, the jobs will eventually go to those people. The huge number of well paying American manufacturing jobs that have fled to Tijuana and Mexicali and Juarez are a far more important issue than the housekeeping and gardening jobs filled by some campesino without papers who waded the Rio Grande.
And you will note, I hope, that this issue... the real issue we should be debating... has nothing to do with immigration, illegal or otherwise.
The whole "illegal immigrant" debate is paralyzed by the fact that it is based on rage and not reason.
The only reason it's become a "party line" issue is because at this moment in history, the American right wing has only a single arrow in their quiver; rage. It has not always been that way, it hopefully will not always be that way.
But right now, rage is what the right wing is pretending substitutes for a plan.
What you say is 100% correct in theory. The rage felt by the right is due to frustration and impotence. We seem to be powerless to get our government to stop sitting on it's hands while our jobs go offshore to the lowest bidder and in many cases to immigrants who work cheap. It seems that our own elected officials are more interested in enhancing the bottom line of manufacturers by making it so easy and profitable to move offshore. Lets face it, the demand for stuff isn't going to go away and people will still buy Ipods even at double the price if they were made here. The consumer doesn't care where it was made, they have proven time and again they will pay whatever the going rate for their toys. The argument that companies would lose their market if they manufactured here only holds water if we continue to allow offshore manufacturers to flood our retail shelves with goods that came in with low or no tariffs.
My idea is that if manufacturers want to make money off of American consumerism, they can either open shop here and employ Americans or they can pay high tariffs. Our money floods offshore and little comes back. At some point something's got to break.
Many on the left misinterpret the direction of our anger. We aren't angry at the illegals, we are angry with our own elected officials that sold us out and allowed the illegal problem to become a problem in the first place. You are correct that it's all we have left but if we abandon the only tool left at our disposal, we might as well just give up.
Not all illegal immigrants are poor ignorant bean pickers. We have illegal aliens in this country who are skilled craftsman, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, construction workers etc... and they are depressing the wages in those professions.
Do you support an increase or decrease of LEGAL immigration?
Not all illegal immigrants are poor ignorant bean pickers. We have illegal aliens in this country who are skilled craftsman, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, construction workers etc... and they are depressing the wages in those professions.
Meat-cutting used to be decent pay/benefits.
Many blue-collar jobs are having wages depressed.
Dont forget college/high school kids looking for part-time work but..
Cant get it because an Illegal is doing that job.
Many on the left misinterpret the direction of our anger. We aren't angry at the illegals, we are angry with our own elected officials that sold us out and allowed the illegal problem to become a problem in the first place. You are correct that it's all we have left but if we abandon the only tool left at our disposal, we might as well just give up.
Really? What would you call it when many on the right accuse illegals of taking American jobs, raping and kidnapping American women, bringing diseases to the US, disrespecting the American flag, refusing to assimilate, refusing to learn English, going on welfare, etc..... If this is not anger of the right, I'd hate to see what is.
The right needs the cheap labor, and the left needs the vote from the illegal immigrant underclass.
But my thing is this: We already know that half of DOCUMENTED Americans dont pay taxes. The half that pays most taxes are the upper middle class - wealthy, often well educated Americans or everyday working lower middle class people. So if all of these unskilled, uneducated people are coming here to pick peas, clean hotels, etc., why would we want to introduce even MORE underclass individuals into this society through amnesty, for the rest of us to pay for with our taxes; since the majority of illegal immigrants are only qualified to do jobs like cleaning hotels and picking peas?
Your against ALL forms of immigration, including legal. So stop throwing in the word illegal.
Secondly, the old "I'm a lefty" bit is getting old. Rush Limbaugh gets callers often who call themselves "Dye in the wool Conservative Republicans" in the beginning of the conversation. El Rushbo calls them out immediately and revealst they are really not right wingers. Lefty shmefty. You support racial profiling, you are anti immigration, you are anti Muslim, pro death penalty, anti 4th amendment, support mandatory identification, and you blame one racial group for the immigration problem. If that is a lefty, I want no such part of it, sign me up Constitution Party.
Go sign up then. Bye bye. *waves* Have a good one.
It seems like such a common sense issue.
Millions breaking into our country illegally..
Our schools,hospitals,social services pay the price.
Wages are being pushed down by cheap labor.
There are many issues economically and well as culturally.
Majority of Americans favor tighter control of Immigration.
So why arent the left-leaning speaking out?
Obama and a solid majority of Democrats are for pushing Amnesty.
Its not hard to see why, millions giving amnesty would become..
Democrat voters.
Seems like most americans agree on this issue.
Why are so many people afraid to speak out?
Millions of Illegal's march in protest but not many americans.
I know many democrats arent in favor of more illegal immigration..
And amnesty so why arent they speaking out?
I don't agree, open immigration is what made this country great.
Not all illegal immigrants are poor ignorant bean pickers. We have illegal aliens in this country who are skilled craftsman, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, construction workers etc... and they are depressing the wages in those professions.
Sorry... but wages in those professions are being depressed by the collapse in the construction industry. The contribution of illegal immigration to that problem is comparable to blaming the Christmas Tsunami on a fat kid doing a cannonball off a dock.
But go ahead and toss your red herring here into the school anyway. After all, there is no better excuse for making bad decisions than burying the genuinely relevant facts beneath trivia.
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Bye bye. *waves* Have a good one.
