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The current Cabal, from Obama to Pelosi to Reid, and all their Vichy American lap-dog supporters in the House and Senate are an absolute Comedy/Freak show. From the destruction of our health care industry which is now on a lit time fuse, to the current reports about Private Pay plummeting in the face of soaring government handouts to the parasite classes, to their absolutely disgraceful comedy-of-fools non-handling of the Gulf oil emergency, it is nothing but incompetence, anti-America policies and nationally-embarrassing conduct by those occupying, but not exercising leadership, positions.
Even the most backward of nations deserves better than this, much less the greatest nation in the history of humanity, the USA. Is it November yet?
You people continue to amaze me. Obama's Presidency has lasted exactly sixteen months. In that time, he has to deal with a major recession that began with a collapse in the real estate sector and spread to the financial sector of the economy. He has to take over fighting two separate wars. He has to deal with a health care industry that now consumes 14% of the total GDP in this country.
In sixteen months you pronounce his administration not only a failure but in your words "an absolutely disgraceful comedy of fools".
On the contrary, there have been major substantive accomplishments since Obama took office. The economy is slowly getting better thanks to ever unpopular bailouts (sad, but a necessity to avoid a plunge into a full-fledged Depression) and the $800 billion fiscal stimulus package passed in 2009. Unemployment will remain high for sometime. But the mistake people make is comparing a full employment economy with where we are today at 9.8% unemployment. A proper comparison would be to compare unemployment during the Great Depression which peaked at about 22%. Problems of this severity are not fixed in sixteen months and only those who live in a fantasy world believe that is possible.
The healthcare reform was unpopular in many circles. However, the national insurance exchange that is being created is going to give individuals seeking health insurance more options and more choices. How could that be a bad thing? One thing stands out and that is the fact that healthcare isn't going to just fix itself on its own. We've gone down that road for the last 30 years and its gotten continually worse. I applaud Obama for sticking his neck out and trying to get something done.
Your comments about the Gulf Oil Spill are laughable. Ever tried to fix an oil leak one mile deep down on the ocean floor? Let's just say its a tough proposition. What experience do you have in engineering, oceanography, and geology? There are hundreds of petroleum engineers and others working on this project right now. The government is putting the screws to BP. Its just that wishing something like this could be fixed and fixing it are too different things. Tell me something, are you one of the people who stood up and cheered when that clown Sarah Palin got up and mouthed "Drill Baby Drill" as her solution to the energy crisis? If so, I really don't care if you have an opinion that this administration could have done more.
Even though Bush was President for 96 months and Obama has been President for only 16 months, you sure all get upset when we try to blame Bush for anything wrong in this country. I blame him for spending $1 trillion on an unnecessary war in Iraq. Heaven knows if we had that money today, the bailout and the fiscal stimulus would have been a piece of cake.
The healthcare reform was unpopular in many circles. However, the national insurance exchange that is being created is going to give individuals seeking health insurance more options and more choices. How could that be a bad thing?
Slavery is NEVER a good thing--not even health care slavery. The only choice will be which flavor of tyranny one prefers. Are you the kind of guy that told the other kids on the playground that you were going to slug them... and then gave them a choice of a left black eye, a right black eye, a bloody nose, or a fat lip? After all you're giving them a choice--how could that be a bad thing?
The conscription just keeps growing in this nation, doesn't it? I'll handle my own health care, thank you. I don't need a pit full of rattlesnakes telling me how to handle it.
As for the OP: there's not one damn thing happening in Washington that is the least bit funny. Tyranny is not funny.
Last edited by ChrisC; 05-26-2010 at 10:35 AM..
Reason: removal of profanity
I agree....but we would be just as doomed if the opposition parties cabal was in charge. This crisis is the accrued resultant of DECADES of policies, but more importantly, a changed world outside the USA. It can't be fixed......war will be the end result.
Aquawhiner have you ever tackled a huge, difficult problem in your life? But I guess you just assume you'd do better than all these "Vichy Americans." When people cannot fathom an issue they make red-faced rants like yours.
I bet you were one of those Viching because Bush didn't have New Orleans re-built in a week!
Slavery is NEVER a good thing--not even health care slavery. The only choice will be which flavor of tyranny one prefers. Are you the kind of guy that told the other kids on the playground that you were going to slug them... and then gave them a choice of a left black eye, a right black eye, a bloody nose, or a fat lip? After all you're giving them a choice--how could that be a bad thing?
The conscription just keeps growing in this nation, doesn't it? I'll handle my own health care, thank you. I don't need a pit full of rattlesnakes telling me how to handle it.
As for the OP: there's not one damn thing happening in Washington that is the least bit funny. Tyranny is not funny.
We've disagreed over a number of issues before and I believe healthcare is one of major ones.
It seems apparent that one major difference between the two of us is that you seem to engage in what I will call black/white thinking. This is typical of people who see the world in terms of "good and evil". The terms you use in this last post are a good illustration of what I'm talking about. Let me quote some examples:
1. Slavery, healthcare slavery.
2. Tyranny.
3. Pit full of rattlesnakes
Black/white thinking is not a good way to see a world that is really composed of many different shades of gray.
Let's take healthcare reform for example. I'm well aware many people were against making changes to the system. However, those changes were made by men and women who were elected by you and the other 150 million Americans who voted in 2008. Those changes were made because many of us are upset about the large number of Americans with no health insurance and the high cost of health insurance. Perhaps, the wrong solution to this problem was picked. However, the problem was real and you should at least be able to acknowledge this is a complex issue that reasonable people with reasonable minds can see differently. Perjorative terms like "slavery" and "tyranny" should be used more carefully. If you were in a concentration camp they would be applicable. They are misused in the context in which you seek to use them.
The nature of a system such as ours is that one side frequently does not get its way. There are winners and losers. I have been unhappy with some past results--such as a Congress that blithely went along with that war in Iraq that has cost this country a $1 trillion. But, I go along and you won't catch me accusing the other side of promoting slavery or causing tyranny.
You have the right in 2010 and 2012 to cast your ballot for different candidates. I'm sure many will do this and a number of democrats in the senate and house who supported healthcare reform will be defeated. Perhaps, Obama will end up being a one term President. If enough are defeated, you may even be able to get this legislation repealed. This hardly sounds like "tyranny" or "slavery" to me. Its the way a representative democracy is supposed to function.
Slavery is NEVER a good thing--not even health care slavery. The only choice will be which flavor of tyranny one prefers. Are you the kind of guy that told the other kids on the playground that you were going to slug them... and then gave them a choice of a left black eye, a right black eye, a bloody nose, or a fat lip? After all you're giving them a choice--how could that be a bad thing?
The conscription just keeps growing in this nation, doesn't it? I'll handle my own health care, thank you. I don't need a pit full of rattlesnakes telling me how to handle it.
As for the OP: there's not one damn thing happening in Washington that is the least bit funny. Tyranny is not funny.
We've disagreed over a number of issues before and I believe healthcare is one of major ones.
It seems apparent that one major difference between the two of us is that you seem to engage in what I will call black/white thinking. This is typical of people who see the world in terms of "good and evil". The terms you use in this last post are a good illustration of what I'm talking about. Let me quote some examples:
1. Slavery, healthcare slavery.
2. Tyranny.
3. Pit full of rattlesnakes
Black/white thinking is not a good way to see a world that is really composed of many different shades of gray.
Let's take healthcare reform for example. I'm well aware many people were against making changes to the system. However, those changes were made by men and women who were elected by you and the other 150 million Americans who voted in 2008. Those changes were made because many of us are upset about the large number of Americans with no health insurance and the high cost of health insurance. Perhaps, the wrong solution to this problem was picked. However, the problem was real and you should at least be able to acknowledge this is a complex issue that reasonable people with reasonable minds can see differently. Perjorative terms like "slavery" and "tyranny" should be used more carefully. If you were in a concentration camp they would be applicable. They are misused in the context in which you seek to use them.
The nature of a system such as ours is that one side frequently does not get its way. There are winners and losers. I have been unhappy with some past results--such as a Congress that blithely went along with that war in Iraq that has cost this country a $1 trillion. But, I go along and you won't catch me accusing the other side of promoting slavery or causing tyranny.
You have the right in 2010 and 2012 to cast your ballot for different candidates. I'm sure many will do this and a number of democrats in the senate and house who supported healthcare reform will be defeated. Perhaps, Obama will end up being a one term President. If enough are defeated, you may even be able to get this legislation repealed. This hardly sounds like "tyranny" or "slavery" to me. Its the way a representative democracy is supposed to function.
I don't take a black and white stance on an issue except when there is a black and white. There is on this issue. I have nothing against health care reform in general... as long as it's based on cooperation, rather than coercion. I will continue to call forced medical procedures and forced involvement in the 'health care' system for those whose beliefs may forbid it wrong, unconstitutional, and black. One of the duties of a representative REPUBLIC is to protect the rights of the minorities. Perhaps we are no longer a representative republic? (this nation was not set up as a pure democracy--which always ends in tyranny of the majority)
Remember all the women back in the sixties and seventies crying out about "keeping your laws off my body"? Remember that? What ever happened to that request? I agree wholeheartedly with them: keep you laws off my body. I wonder where all those protesters are now? They are mysteriously silent. They were so fired up back in the day about keeping laws off their bodies. Now? Silence. Suddenly having laws controlling our bodies is okay?
Some day, when the government gets around to steam rolling over something you hold dear in your life, you may understand.
I shouldn't have to 'cast a ballot' to retain freedom. It was supposed to have been built into the Constitution.
International trade is a fact of life. There was a couple Democrats named Smoot and Hawley who authored a protectionist duty schedule. When it was implemented, our trade partners retaliated against our high duty rates, but not importing our goods into their country. The result????
A inconvenient period often referred to as the Great Depression. Perhaps you've heard of it.
The answer is not to compete toe to toe with the Chinese, but, rather, to move up the food chain and focus on higher-end products they can't make.
The answer that never failes is to reduce gov't spending and leave that money in the economy.
Lower taxes assist all factors of America's economy on a perpetual basis, just as taking off your parking brake helps you drive (as long as the brake is kept disengaged).
Not that political affiliations of eighty years ago have that much bearing today, but Smoot and Hawley were both Republicans.
To the bigger point: this is long on rhetoric, short on pragmatism. Yes, the goal should be to keep taxes as low as possible, but how do you propose we do that and still fund the federal government? What programs do you suggest cutting and by how much?
I don't take a black and white stance on an issue except when there is a black and white. There is on this issue. I have nothing against health care reform in general... as long as it's based on cooperation, rather than coercion. I will continue to call forced medical procedures and forced involvement in the 'health care' system for those whose beliefs may forbid it wrong, unconstitutional, and black. One of the duties of a representative REPUBLIC is to protect the rights of the minorities. Perhaps we are no longer a representative republic? (this nation was not set up as a pure democracy--which always ends in tyranny of the majority)
I shouldn't have to 'cast a ballot' to retain freedom. It was supposed to have been built into the Constitution.
I'd appreciate it if you would cite the specific provisions of the US Constitution that you believe are violated by the healthcare reform law. I've actually seen some people start quoting the Declaration of Independence when called upon to perform this simple task. I realize this debate has aroused many emotions, but that's not very impressive.
In our society, the court's determine what is and what is not constitutional. Ultimately, the challenge to the healthcare reform act will make its way to the US Supreme Court. If you are right and the legislation is unconstitutional than the court will say so, so you are protected. If the Court holds the legislation constitutional--as I predict it will--you can always try and have the Constitution amended. Its happened a few times.
I also ought to point out that the reason we need formal written laws in society as opposed to unwritten customs is precisely because 100% of people don't agree, consent, or cooperate on any issue. The founding fathers even provided that the Constitution would be effective if they were ratified by only 3/4's of the states. In other words, you'd have a functioning government and Constitution even though some had not consented. That's the way our system works.
I'd appreciate it if you would cite the specific provisions of the US Constitution that you believe are violated by the healthcare reform law. I've actually seen some people start quoting the Declaration of Independence when called upon to perform this simple task. I realize this debate has aroused many emotions, but that's not very impressive.
In our society, the court's determine what is and what is not constitutional. Ultimately, the challenge to the healthcare reform act will make its way to the US Supreme Court. If you are right and the legislation is unconstitutional than the court will say so, so you are protected. If the Court holds the legislation constitutional--as I predict it will--you can always try and have the Constitution amended. Its happened a few times.
I also ought to point out that the reason we need formal written laws in society as opposed to unwritten customs is precisely because 100% of people don't agree, consent, or cooperate on any issue. The founding fathers even provided that the Constitution would be effective if they were ratified by only 3/4's of the states. In other words, you'd have a functioning government and Constitution even though some had not consented. That's the way our system works.
#1
Assumption: In the United States, freedom of religion is a constitutionally guaranteed right provided in the religion clauses of the First Amendment.
Fact: Several faiths within the US do not believe in modern medicine--it is either forbidden or strongly discouraged (Christian Science, certain fundamental protestant faiths, Jehovah's Witness' to a certain degree, Amish at times, etc)
Conflict: The health care slavery bill will require everyone to be a part of the capitalistic health care money collection scheme. If one's religion professes against it and the law requires it... well, don't you see a conflict?
#2 (not specifically constitutional, but certainly a matter of US law)
Assumption: In the United States, the right to refuse medical procedures has been upheld in the courts many, many times. Although I cannot cite the specific laws, this is a summary from a New York court: As a general rule, every human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body and cannot be subjected to medical treatment without his consent.
Fact: Although the health care slavery law morphs like a snake shedding it's skin, there are (at least the last I checked) clauses concerning mandated annual or semi-annual 'check ups.'
Conflict: Isn't it obvious?
I don't have time right now to continue to list these problems. There are dozens of them. IMO, this health care thing is one of the biggest single attacks on personal liberty since the original settlers got fed up and left Europe.
Assumption: In the United States, freedom of religion is a constitutionally guaranteed right provided in the religion clauses of the First Amendment.
Fact: Several faiths within the US do not believe in modern medicine--it is either forbidden or strongly discouraged (Christian Science, certain fundamental protestant faiths, Jehovah's Witness' to a certain degree, Amish at times, etc)
Conflict: The health care slavery bill will require everyone to be a part of the capitalistic health care money collection scheme. If one's religion professes against it and the law requires it... well, don't you see a conflict?
#2 (not specifically constitutional, but certainly a matter of US law)
Assumption: In the United States, the right to refuse medical procedures has been upheld in the courts many, many times. Although I cannot cite the specific laws, this is a summary from a New York court: As a general rule, every human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body and cannot be subjected to medical treatment without his consent.
Fact: Although the health care slavery law morphs like a snake shedding it's skin, there are (at least the last I checked) clauses concerning mandated annual or semi-annual 'check ups.'
Conflict: Isn't it obvious?
I don't have time right now to continue to list these problems. There are dozens of them. IMO, this health care thing is one of the biggest single attacks on personal liberty since the original settlers got fed up and left Europe.
Your opinion is accurate.
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