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And the word deist appear where exactly? That's right, it is as always, subject to interpretation.
I'm going to let some one else take this as this is just, well, never mind.
Did you decide to ignore post #207?
Deism, front and center. No interpretation required.
As for these others, my, they don't seem to be the quotes of "Christians", do they? No wonder you're going to let someone else take this. You don't have a rebuttal.
Deism, front and center. No interpretation required.
As for these others, my, they don't seem to be the quotes of "Christians", do they? No wonder you're going to let someone else take this. You don't have a rebuttal.
Why have you avoided these words of Washington? I think I know since the word God does appear in them along with Almighty. Go ahead and tell me that something like this didn't happen but remember to check the date of the publication as compared to anything written since 1900.
“Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor . . . Now, therefore, I do recommend . . . that we may all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection . . . And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions . . . to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue.”
Washington, Writings (1838) Vol. XII, pp. 119-120, October 3, 1789. See also James D. Richardson, A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents, 1789-1897 (Published by the Authority of Congress, 1899), VOl. I, p. 64, October 3, 1789. OI-115.
Why have you avoided these words of Washington? I think I know since the word God does appear in them along with Almighty. Go ahead and tell me that something like this didn't happen but remember to check the date of the publication as compared to anything written since 1900.
What's to avoid? They're his proclamation for a national day of Thanksgiving.
There's not a uniquely Christian idea in the document.
Why have you avoided these words of Washington? I think I know since the word God does appear in them along with Almighty. Go ahead and tell me that something like this didn't happen but remember to check the date of the publication as compared to anything written since 1900.
“Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor . . . Now, therefore, I do recommend . . . that we may all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection . . . And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions . . . to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue.”
Washington, Writings (1838) Vol. XII, pp. 119-120, October 3, 1789. See also James D. Richardson, A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents, 1789-1897 (Published by the Authority of Congress, 1899), VOl. I, p. 64, October 3, 1789. OI-115.
I'm not ignoring Washington's references to God. As I've pointed out to you repeatedly, a belief in a god, a supreme being, a creator, is not Christianity. It's not Christianity. Washington and the Founding Fathers lived in a time of free thinkers. And among the Founding Fathers there were many free thinkers, who besides willing to reject past political systems and beliefs, were also willing to reject past religious systems and beliefs. In order to be a Christian, you have to believe in the divinity of Christ. Several of the Founding Fathers didn't believe in the divinity of Christ. They believed he existed. They believed he was an admirable human being. They followed his teachings. They still believed in a god. They just didn't believe that Christ was God. They were free thinkers.
The passage you referenced doesn't talk about Christ. Washington studiously avoided referencing Christ. You've got one quote out there where he mentions Christ, a piece of advice to a native people who are dealing with an advancing nation to learn about the dominant religion of that advancing nation. Kinda like if someone had told the native people of Egypt when Rome was expanding its empire that knowing something about Roman religious beliefs could help them understand and deal with the invaders.
Many religions other than Christianity believe in a Supreme Being. Allah is just another word for God. And Muslims believe in Jesus Christ.
I'm not telling you that Washington absolutely wasn't a Christian. I don't know what beliefs he held closely to his heart. But you don't know his heart, either. You can believe that Washington was a Christian, but that's your opinion. It's not a fact. The fact is that we cannot absolutely know because Washington never shared his most private personal beliefs. Even when asked to declare himself, he declined to do so. We cannot KNOW. And I think it's important from a historical standpoint to acknowledge that there are things about historical figures that we cannot KNOW.
I think I am going to bow out, I honestly just don't have the will or endurance to ride this discussion through. Thanks DC and Historiandude, I read your points (so don't think it wasted text), but I just can't get into this one for some reason. Good luck, and enjoy!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Did you decide to ignore post #207?
Deism, front and center. No interpretation required.
As for these others, my, they don't seem to be the quotes of "Christians", do they? No wonder you're going to let someone else take this. You don't have a rebuttal.
I have a life and I don't have unlimited time to spend. Most know this of others will keep their posts short and to a point.
And yes, everything is subject to interpretation. Providence, = fate, or God?
Quote:
They just didn't believe that Christ was God.
Neither do I. Christ is the Son of God. (john 3:16) "God sent not His Son to condemn the world for the world was condemned already".
I don't know who is teaching you what, but they are teaching you wrong, or you are learning it wrong...don't know which and I don't think I care which.
All can be learned by reading the Bible not by listening to those who say they have. Many preachers will regurgitate, "Milton" and call it the words from the Bible. He was a poet.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
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Location: North Pacific
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude
Well... why didn't you say you were a heretic?
All this time, I thought you were a Christian.
Never mind.
If that is because I will take the word of God as written in the Bible or spoken to me, rather than the word from people, then so be it.
I do not trust people, they are mean and many corrupt.
Trust it isn't my body I'm concerned with, only that of my soul eternal.
PS: we're off topic
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-11-2010 at 12:27 PM..
Reason: added ps
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To each his own.
