Biden defends Israel's handling of raid on Gaza aid flotilla (illegal, weapon)

[Badland wonder]

Burdell, are you saying Israel does not have the right to exist? What country would you like to have there instead? Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey? Even though North Korea and Iran frequently display "bad behavior", do they not have the right to exist?

[kevcrawford]

Originally Posted by burdell

How is an offensive commando raid in the middle of the night in international waters defense? What's truly disappointing is the Israeli apologists' willingeness to rubber stamp all of Israel's actions as defense and legitimate.

This is a simple case of you believing what you want to believe, but not what is a fact.

These boardings happen ALL the time. They're expected because there is currently a blockade, preventing the illegal smuggling of weapons into a place that intends to use them to kill Israelis.

They were not surprised by this boarding. They were prepared for it and decided to attack military commandos. If they had nothing to hide, they would have done like the many before, and let them board peacefully.

Let's be clear...BOTH sides were armed. You're just upset because the Israelis won.

If someone is smuggling things to my neighbor, and they're planning on attacking and harming my family with those weapons, we're going to have a problem and only one of us will be walking away.

[stevej64]

Biden said he is a Zionist first and a american second.What did you expect him to say? He went to Israel and they kick him like a dog so he now is crawling back licking Israels boots.
Where did I hear him say he is a Zionist? Shalom TV.moveon.org

[sol11]

Originally Posted by burdell

Israel's existed since what, 1947?

Which history are you referring to?

Written by who?

Go do the research. You are correct about the year, so the rest of your question should be a cake-walk.

[lamontnow]

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

Biden is an idiot... the aid workers were only deterring Israeli forces but to meet deterrence with lethal force... there are plenty of ways to isolate the Gaza strip... gunning down aid workers is probably the least appropriate way...

"aid workers"?????

Here's what France's top anti-terrorism judge thinks about those "aid workers". He says the Turks loaded that lead boat with terrorists:

"The Turkish Islamic charity behind a flotilla of aid ships that was raided by Israeli forces on its way to Gaza had ties to terrorism networks, including a 1999 al-Qaida plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport, France's former top anti-terrorism judge said Wednesday."

"They were basically helping al-Qaida when (Osama) bin Laden started to want to target U.S. soil," he said.
AP INTERVIEW: Turkish aid group had terror ties - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_eu/eu_gaza_ships_terror_ties - broken link)

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by Badland wonder

Burdell, are you saying Israel does not have the right to exist? What country would you like to have there instead? Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey? Even though North Korea and Iran frequently display "bad behavior", do they not have the right to exist?

I don't think that was his point at all. And like I said, Palestinians, Iran, Turkey, Syria... they all have their perspective too, the right to exist and protect themselves. Israel isn't the only one who is expected to protect itself while others must simply "listen".

As for "bad behavior", consider the two sides of any story. Palestinians have as much right to consider Israel oppressive and rogue as Israel has to protect itself by calling them terrorists.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Whatever it takes, but since but the smugglers are not looking for a propaganda victory, they usually surrender without a fight. If they do fight, it never ends well for them.

Weak apologist justification at best. It's time Israel lose the attitude the events of 70 years ago justify anything they do today.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Badland wonder

Burdell, are you saying Israel does not have the right to exist? What country would you like to have there instead? Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Turkey? Even though North Korea and Iran frequently display "bad behavior", do they not have the right to exist?

Those are your words, I said no such thing.

Someone posted "History records Israel's right to exist."

Given Israel's short existence as a nation I merely questioned just where/when in history this 'right' is recorded?

[burdell]

Originally Posted by lamontnow

"aid workers"?????

Here's what France's top anti-terrorism judge thinks about those "aid workers". He says the Turks loaded that lead boat with terrorists:

"The Turkish Islamic charity behind a flotilla of aid ships that was raided by Israeli forces on its way to Gaza had ties to terrorism networks, including a 1999 al-Qaida plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport, France's former top anti-terrorism judge said Wednesday."

"They were basically helping al-Qaida when (Osama) bin Laden started to want to target U.S. soil," he said.
AP INTERVIEW: Turkish aid group had terror ties - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_eu/eu_gaza_ships_terror_ties - broken link)

You mis-quoted the article in an other thread just as you've done here.

Just WHERE does it state: "the Turks loaded that lead boat with terrorists" ?

The fact is it DOES NOT!

You also conveniently overlook the article stating: "IHH vehemently denies ties to radical groups. The group is not among some 45 groups listed as terrorists by the U.S. State Department's Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism"

As well as: "Bruguiere, who led the French judiciary's counterterrorism unit for nearly two decades before retiring in 2007, didn't indicate whether IHH now has terror ties, but said it did when he investigated it in the late 1990s."

Nice job of cherry-picking, taking things out of context, and being deliberately misleading.

[lamontnow]

Originally Posted by burdell

How is an offensive commando raid in the middle of the night in international waters defense? What's truly disappointing is the Israeli apologists' willingeness to rubber stamp all of Israel's actions as defense and legitimate.

You and your Israel-hating friends keep parroting this bit about international waters and illegality. You have absolutely NO idea of what you are talking about.
I direct your attention to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. Specifically, paragraph 67-68:

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;<
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

I highlighted the relevant clauses. IT WAS LEGAL.

Repeating a lie a thousand times does not make it true. Educate yourself.