U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Thanksgiving Day!
Happy Thanksgiving Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 06-08-2010, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,508 posts, read 5,426,067 times
Reputation: 3254

Advertisements

Along with golf outings and vacations and concerts Obama has indulged in since the oil spill, Obama also played host to Calderon encouraging and joining him in bashing one of our own states. In Arizona they might be wishing they only had an oil spill to deal with on their border.....either way...Obama isn't cleaning up that mess either.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-08-2010, 08:47 PM
 
4,966 posts, read 4,706,074 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:

The issue is not Obama's failure to "plug the damn hole." The issue is Obama's failure to devote the full resources of the Federal Government, in a timely manner, to contain the oil before it reached the shores of our valuable coastline.

Riley credits Obama for increasing amount of boom protecting the Alabama coast - WHNT

Obama orders manpower tripled along oil spill coastline, and meets with new commission (photos)


From my understanding when the administration got involved early they were told by BP that they had things under control so the gov't eased off.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2010, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
5,682 posts, read 4,545,667 times
Reputation: 3817
The booms aren't working because the oil isn't cooperating and floating to the surface like it is supposed to. Oil is getting past the booms and smothering coastline. Oil is in suspension at all depths between the well and the surface and is affecting sea life at all levels of ocean. It is an unmitigated disaster and no one is managing it any better than we managed Katrina. That is the nature of disasters. The right was busy savaging Obama's reputation well before this latest opportunity. What else is new. America is ****ed because Americans are ****ed. I think it's criminal that we have over 131 different ways, high tech, low tech and everything inbetween to kill life on this planet. We have spent untold trillions destroying life with individual firearms and with weapons of mass destruction. Oil has been spilling forever and it wouldn't have mattered if this was a supertanker run aground it still would be an environmental disaster because we have spent no money at all researching the problem. Why? Because the money is in getting the oil out the ground and into your SUV. There is no money in preventing disasters which is why companies can rip each other off by selling them junk that they know won't work in a gamble that no one will ever find out. Google 'bio-hazard suits' in connection with Iraq and you'll see what I mean. Obama is a scapegoat for corporate greed and that is that. "When elephants fight its the grass that suffers." "When corporate interests fight its the environment that suffers." "When this country isn't under a Republican rudder its the sitting Democrat in office whose reputation suffers."

H
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2010, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,508 posts, read 5,426,067 times
Reputation: 3254
Those articles are dated June 1 and June 8. The spill was April 20...6 weeks before the earliest article. It reinforces the thought that the government response continues to be too little, too late.
Quote:
From my understanding when the administration got involved early they were told by BP that they had things under control so the gov't eased off.
That's not leadership...not by a long shot. And, that's not what Obama said....he said they've been calling all the shots since day one, not BP. This isn't something Obama (or you) can whitewash over. He's either the man in charge or he isn't.

Imagine you are at work and there is a screw up, one that the potential to be a MAJOR screw up....cause lots of damage and cost the company a boat load of money. It's under your authority, the buck stops with you. You inquire as to what is going on and you are told it is all under control. Fine, you go home, have dinner with the wife and kiddos, thinking all is well. When you get to work in the morning your boss is pissed...the problem is bigger than it was before. You tell your boss that you thought it was under control....that's what you were told so you backed off.

How is that going to go over with your boss? Is he going to give you a promotion for your wonderful leadership skills? No, he's going to hand you a cardboard box and 5 minutes to clean the stuff out of your office.

Quote:
"I ultimately take responsibility for solving this crisis," Obama said about the continuing oil spill in the Gulf. "I'm the president, and the buck stops with me."
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2010, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
5,682 posts, read 4,545,667 times
Reputation: 3817
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
No, he's going to hand you a cardboard box and 5 minutes to clean the stuff out of your office.
But that part of the scenario doesn't exist in the real world of presidential governance. Eats you up doesn't it. Sorry, real life is like that. You can't 'fire' a President, he must be impeached and it isn't a trivial process as we well know.

H
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2010, 12:07 AM
 
4,966 posts, read 4,706,074 times
Reputation: 1645
Well...
Quote:


The response and cleanup effort has been ongoing for more than a month.

According to White House records of the cleanup attempt, response vessels have been engaged in cleanup activities continuously since April 23. Since that time, the following resources have been employed:


Fox's attack on Obama's oil spill response rests on falsehoods | Media Matters for America

Last edited by Motion; 06-09-2010 at 12:17 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Long Island
8,684 posts, read 2,930,616 times
Reputation: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The booms aren't working because the oil isn't cooperating and floating to the surface like it is supposed to. Oil is getting past the booms and smothering coastline. Oil is in suspension at all depths between the well and the surface and is affecting sea life at all levels of ocean. It is an unmitigated disaster and no one is managing it any better than we managed Katrina. That is the nature of disasters. The right was busy savaging Obama's reputation well before this latest opportunity. What else is new. America is ****ed because Americans are ****ed. I think it's criminal that we have over 131 different ways, high tech, low tech and everything inbetween to kill life on this planet. We have spent untold trillions destroying life with individual firearms and with weapons of mass destruction. Oil has been spilling forever and it wouldn't have mattered if this was a supertanker run aground it still would be an environmental disaster because we have spent no money at all researching the problem. Why? Because the money is in getting the oil out the ground and into your SUV. There is no money in preventing disasters which is why companies can rip each other off by selling them junk that they know won't work in a gamble that no one will ever find out. Google 'bio-hazard suits' in connection with Iraq and you'll see what I mean. Obama is a scapegoat for corporate greed and that is that. "When elephants fight its the grass that suffers." "When corporate interests fight its the environment that suffers." "When this country isn't under a Republican rudder its the sitting Democrat in office whose reputation suffers."

H
Good points, its hard to believe that after the Exxon Valsdez and the oil spill off the coast of France that the best we can do is put booms in the water add some chemical dispersants and hope for the best. Why is there no mechanism for extracting and separating oil? After all its not a question of if there is another oil spill its when will it be.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: North America
14,375 posts, read 5,204,236 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The EPA has an approved Disaster Plan for an oil spill. It was approved in 1994. It called for fire booms to be used. Sadly they never ordered any. They could have worked ahead of time to protect the shores.

No one asked anyone in the government to "stop the spill". Nothing was proactively done to protect the coast and that is their fault for not doing their job.

There is also the National Contingency Plan.
EPA and the “National Contingency Plan” Climate Audit
A few things:

The contingency plan is 16 years old.

With the amount of oil that is gushing out of that well, I don't think the firebooms could have been doable, even from the beginning. Can you imagine what it would do to the air downwind from that amount of oil burning?

And, I do not consider pounding your fist on a podium, beating your chest, and creasing your brow to be an effective response to a disaster of this magnitude. If Obama had done so, then he would be slammed for grandstanding.

You want to get angry at someone? Try the people who have had a love affair with big oil. A love affair that allowed these companies to fill out their own inspection reports. A love affair that capped liability at $75 million. The Drill-baby-drill-and-damn-the-consequences mentality that allowed safety measures to go unchecked for decades.

The same people who scoff at Federal regulations screaming they are "Big Government" are now whining the Feds aren't doing enough. Well, you can't have it both ways, sports fans.

The problem with this well didn't start on 1/20/2009, neither did the recession, the housing bubble, the bank meltdown, TARP, or most of the problems Obama inherited. I see very few of you who are villifying President Obama even mentioning GWB or Cheney. If Obama is culpable, then his predecessor is equally culpable.

Is Obama perfect? Hell no. Is he as bad as most of his detractors paint him to be? Hell no.

I've said this before, and it bears repeating: If you are going to drill in an environmentally sensitive area (i.e. offshore) then you, as a company, and you as the US government, had better be damned sure you have procedures in place to handle and resolve a worst-case scenario. If not, then don't drill. Period.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2010, 11:30 AM
 
9,299 posts, read 3,236,599 times
Reputation: 2284
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
A few things:

The contingency plan is 16 years old.

With the amount of oil that is gushing out of that well, I don't think the firebooms could have been doable, even from the beginning. Can you imagine what it would do to the air downwind from that amount of oil burning?

And, I do not consider pounding your fist on a podium, beating your chest, and creasing your brow to be an effective response to a disaster of this magnitude. If Obama had done so, then he would be slammed for grandstanding.

You want to get angry at someone? Try the people who have had a love affair with big oil. A love affair that allowed these companies to fill out their own inspection reports. A love affair that capped liability at $75 million. The Drill-baby-drill-and-damn-the-consequences mentality that allowed safety measures to go unchecked for decades.

The same people who scoff at Federal regulations screaming they are "Big Government" are now whining the Feds aren't doing enough. Well, you can't have it both ways, sports fans.

The problem with this well didn't start on 1/20/2009, neither did the recession, the housing bubble, the bank meltdown, TARP, or most of the problems Obama inherited. I see very few of you who are villifying President Obama even mentioning GWB or Cheney. If Obama is culpable, then his predecessor is equally culpable.

Is Obama perfect? Hell no. Is he as bad as most of his detractors paint him to be? Hell no.

I've said this before, and it bears repeating: If you are going to drill in an environmentally sensitive area (i.e. offshore) then you, as a company, and you as the US government, had better be damned sure you have procedures in place to handle and resolve a worst-case scenario. If not, then don't drill. Period.
Nice post. Where is that mole Cheney, anyways?

Dick Cheney and the Oil Spill
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,508 posts, read 5,426,067 times
Reputation: 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Good points, its hard to believe that after the Exxon Valsdez and the oil spill off the coast of France that the best we can do is put booms in the water add some chemical dispersants and hope for the best. Why is there no mechanism for extracting and separating oil? After all its not a question of if there is another oil spill its when will it be.
There are such methods....we just aren't using them. Well, to be fair,six weeks after the spill we finally accepted the skimmers from the Dutch (they offered them just days after the spill). The skimmers can be flown here and attached to our clean-up ships. They do just as you describe....skim off the oil and water, store the oil in tanker ships and redeposit the water into the ocean. The same could easily be done with super tankers and unlike the skimmers, super tankers could collect the oil that is below the surface as well. AFAIU, we don't use these because the water put back into the ocean isn't completely clean, it still contains oil residue and that is against EPA standards.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top