When you buy a home (Golden Gate, Iona: mineral rights, for sale, foreclosure)

[PLBR]

My cousin, explained a few things to me, and I thought it would be a good topic of discussion

You may think you own some real property, but that's not what really happens.

You never actually own a piece of property. What you own is a bundle of rights for the use and control of a piece of property. And you never actually sell property. You sell a bundle of rights. But you can unbundle those rights and sell part of that bundle while keeping some of the rights for yourself.

I believe what happens when a HOA is created, is that the original owner or developer subdivides a tract, and eventually sells the lots, but keeps certain rights for himself. The HOA will then end up controlling some collection of rights to ALL the properties in the tract, and those rights are never sold to home buyers in the first place.

So when you, the home buyer, buy into a HOA, you are buying a house with certain rights packaged with it, that the HOA chooses to sell to you. So it's not exactly like a contract with certain restrictions that you agreed to. It's more like, there are a variety of rights that the HOA never sold you in the first place.

When you, in turn, wish to sell your house, once again, you aren't selling the property. You are selling your rights to the property. And you can only sell those rights that you own. And the buyer can only buy and acquire those rights that you have to sell him.

That's what I think I understand about how HOA's and CCR's work.

[aridon]

You own the property. Ownership by its nature grants rights of use. Having right of use does NOT automatically grant you ownership (lease, rent etc). The ownership distinction is valid and has been part of law for as long as there has been law. Your Deed grants you ownership just as much as a title on a car or a receipt for a paid trinket.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership

You buy in an area and you agree to abide by the rules of the area regardless if it is an HOA or not. Every city and town has rules and regulations. Most of which are quite reasonable. Just because there are rules that must be followed doesn't mean you don't own the property. Just because you can't stick 10 cows and 30 chickens in your backyard in PSL doesn't change your ownership of the property.

HOA's are simply an extension of those rules you agree to adding the concept of community owned areas. They can and do change. They can even be completely dissolved. This doesn't change your ownership of the property.

Having a mortgage doesn't change your ownership of the property as well. Something people like to say is "the bank owns the property until its paid off" and that couldn't be further from the truth.

[SeetheUSA]

I'm more confused after reading the original post than I was before!

[FlaLadyB]

Aridon has it right - PLBR your post will not cause a discussion, it is causing confusion since your assumptions are incorrect.

[runswithscissors]

Nonsense.

HOAs can be dissolved. You still own the property.

Can a Florida HOA be dissolved? – Condos and HOAs – Sun-Sentinel

And where in the world are you getting "the original developer keeps certain rights for himself." ??????

[Ginachecked]

I also agree with Aridon

[Rabflmom]

But an HOA can foreclose on your home if you do not pay your HOA fees so it is possible to be paid up on the mortgage or own the home out right and still lose your house. Even though it is stupid not to pay the fees, we had about 10 home owners who got behind (our yearly fee was about $400), ignored the notices, and had to be foreclosed on after several years of not paying fees. Of course it is the last option an HOA wants to take but sometimes it takes the threat to get people to pay the dues.

[aridon]

If you don't pay anyone that has a bill against your house or property they can fine a lien and eventually if you're stupid, broke or don't care can force a sale of your home. Contractors, the city, mortgage holders, hoa etc

What does that have to do with ownership? Nothing. Pay your bills and that doesn't happen. Don't want to pay an hoa, don't buy inside one.

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by Rabflmom

But an HOA can foreclose on your home if you do not pay your HOA fees so it is possible to be paid up on the mortgage or own the home out right and still lose your house. Even though it is stupid not to pay the fees, we had about 10 home owners who got behind (our yearly fee was about $400), ignored the notices, and had to be foreclosed on after several years of not paying fees. Of course it is the last option an HOA wants to take but sometimes it takes the threat to get people to pay the dues

It's Florida law. Every potential buyer is required to get the disclosure summary. And every HOA is required to file it's documents with the state.

There are also legal and financial challenges when the homeowner is in regular bank foreclosure and the HOA has to jockey for legal position with the lender for payment of HOA fees.

Chapter 720


720.401 Prospective purchasers subject to association membership requirement; disclosure required; covenants; assessments; contract cancellation.—

(1)(a) A prospective parcel owner in a community must be presented a disclosure summary before executing the contract for sale. The disclosure summary must be in a form substantially similar to the following form:

DISCLOSURE SUMMARY FOR (NAME OF COMMUNITY)

1. AS A PURCHASER OF PROPERTY IN THIS COMMUNITY, YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED TO BE A MEMBER OF A HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION.

2. THERE HAVE BEEN OR WILL BE RECORDED RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS GOVERNING THE USE AND OCCUPANCY OF PROPERTIES IN THIS COMMUNITY.

3. YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED TO PAY ASSESSMENTS TO THE ASSOCIATION. ASSESSMENTS MAY BE SUBJECT TO PERIODIC CHANGE. IF APPLICABLE, THE CURRENT AMOUNT IS $ PER . YOU WILL ALSO BE OBLIGATED TO PAY ANY SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS IMPOSED BY THE ASSOCIATION. SUCH SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. IF APPLICABLE, THE CURRENT AMOUNT IS $ PER .

4. YOU MAY BE OBLIGATED TO PAY SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS TO THE RESPECTIVE MUNICIPALITY, COUNTY, OR SPECIAL DISTRICT. ALL ASSESSMENTS ARE SUBJECT TO PERIODIC CHANGE.

5. YOUR FAILURE TO PAY SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS OR ASSESSMENTS LEVIED BY A MANDATORY HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION COULD RESULT IN A LIEN ON YOUR PROPERTY.

6. THERE MAY BE AN OBLIGATION TO PAY RENT OR LAND USE FEES FOR RECREATIONAL OR OTHER COMMONLY USED FACILITIES AS AN OBLIGATION OF MEMBERSHIP IN THE HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION. IF APPLICABLE, THE CURRENT AMOUNT IS $ PER .

7. THE DEVELOPER MAY HAVE THE RIGHT TO AMEND THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE ASSOCIATION MEMBERSHIP OR THE APPROVAL OF THE PARCEL OWNERS.

8. THE STATEMENTS CONTAINED IN THIS DISCLOSURE FORM ARE ONLY SUMMARY IN NATURE, AND, AS A PROSPECTIVE PURCHASER, YOU SHOULD REFER TO THE COVENANTS AND THE ASSOCIATION GOVERNING DOCUMENTS BEFORE PURCHASING PROPERTY.

9. THESE DOCUMENTS ARE EITHER MATTERS OF PUBLIC RECORD AND CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE RECORD OFFICE IN THE COUNTY WHERE THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED, OR ARE NOT RECORDED AND CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE DEVELOPER.

This is why, IMO, people who talk badly about HOAs don't have a CLUE how complicated it is to run one properly to ensure the community is in compliance at all times. Those which are poorly run are normally communities who won't pay for a real "property manager", lawyers etc. NONE of which are free.

My community sits on a major state road that was to undergo a 3 year construction project and the STATE had PLENTY of demands on US and it cost us MONEY and TIME to fight/negotiate the final outcome(s). Still not all resolved as they refused to put a traffic light at our entrance after widening the road by 4 lanes and a resident died trying to get INTO the DRIVEWAY from oncoming traffic. Because the STATE kept making traffic pattern changes that were poorly done and massive traffic exceeding the speed limit at high speeds created a big mess. And still does, TBH.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

[HarryWho?]

Originally Posted by runswithscissors

Nonsense.

HOAs can be dissolved. You still own the property.

Can a Florida HOA be dissolved? – Condos and HOAs – Sun-Sentinel

And where in the world are you getting "the original developer keeps certain rights for himself." ??????

I think he's referring to places like Golden Gates Estates and River Ranches where the original developers retained the mineral rights.