Maine Mall might be closing? (Portland, Bangor: for sale, hotel, income)

[lrfox]

^Right, the proposal will mean money for Westbrook, but is it the only answer? Does Westbrook's need for business justify the construction of 1.65 million sq. ft of business that could hurt business in other surrounding towns?

How does it benefit anyone but Westbrook? Can you really say that something of this scale would help S. Portland? How about Scarborough who's working on developing along Payne Road? What about Falmouth? Freeport? Even places as far away as Kittery would suffer. Wouldn't Westbrook be better served by building something that can put an emphasis on redeveloping the town center than building something that will divert all attention AWAY from the town center?

There are other options out there that would benefit both Westbrook and the area much better than Stroudwater Place would. A good example would be a mixed-use development consisting of mainly housing and some office space and some small scale retail (read: not 1,000,000 sq. feet of it). Westbrook doesn't have room for NEW development downtown but it has room for better use of existing space and infrastructure. Building the Stroudwater monstrosity will kill any hopes of something good happening in downtown Westbrook and at the same time, it'll hurt the balance that exists in the surrounding communities (of Which Portland and S. Portland are the focal point and epicenter).

[K-Luv]

Not to sound ignorant, but what business in DT Portland would be hurt? The LL Bean outlet, Olympia Sports (and a small one, at that) and one or two specialty stores are about the only business aside from restaurants and bars downtown. The Old Port caters to, and relies heavily on tourism. There are a few boutiques and other stores in the Old Port that do operate for Portlanders, but they have their niche that, according to you, is a very small market.

I do not think that Westbrook could handle a 1,000,000 + sq ft. shopping center, even if there is the space to build it. But something needs to be done. Too much Maine money is being spent in New Hampshire and Massachusetts. And it seems that not too many people around here are taking notice of this; that plenty of Mainers are willing to spend the gas money and tolls in order to do so.

[lrfox]

^You don't sound ignorant at all, it's a completely valid question. The Portland businesses that would be hurt by Stroudwater the most would be businesses that depend on pulling in passers-by and people just cruising around town. The cafes, restaurants, and a good number of the little shops and boutiques would lose a good volume of people due to the fact that people would be spending more time at Stroudwater (in addition to shoppers at Maine Mall). The other thing that would happen is that many of the boutiques and stores that do business in the Old Port will up and move to Stroudwater to be around simlar stores and the consumers that will buy from them.

The biggest problem would come when new businesses are looking to locate in the Portland area. Instead of going downtown, they'd go to Stroudwater as it would be where all the new businesses and consumers are. 9 out of 10 times, the new business will take a place in the brand-new, state-of-the-art facility over moving to an old building (like the ones downtown). It's a case of spreading too thin... Instead of having the majority of retail split 50/50 between downtown and the Maine Mall, with the addition of Stroudwater, you're talking about splitting it 33/33/33 between three places. What this means is high levels of vacancy in all three places. Like I've said, it upsets a delicate balance that exists right now.

I also agree that something needs to be done to try to keep those who are leaving for NH and Mass in Maine. I think it can be done by encouraging more people to open shops downtown (i.e. tax incentives for new business, etc), lowering rents in the Maine Mall, and re-using space in the city (i.e the Public Market Building); all of this without Stroudwater Place.

[K-Luv]

I think that initially this Stroudwater Place would detour some business from other areas, then once the novelty wears off people will go back to their old shopping habits. I do not study this stuff, so I could be wrong. I have seen this scenario a few times; new development is established, everybody goes gah-gah over it and then a year later it is forgotten.

[lrfox]

^That may be the case, but history doesn't really support that possibility. Even in places where that does happen, it's usually more like 10-15 (or more) years minimum (Like when the Maine Mall was built) before the shift back to the city center takes place (if it happens at all). Especially when you're talking about something this scale (which is planned to be 450,000 sq. ft. larger than the Maine Mall). It's hard to predict whether that will happen or not, but I wouldn't want to take the risk on this one simply because it was hard for downtown to recover the first time a major mall was built in the 'burbs, I don't want to see what happens the second time. This is the reason many cities are trying to avoid building these new suburban mega malls. Most small and medium cities struggled to stay afloat (many didn't stay afloat) when building suburban malls was trendy and now they're trying to avoid it. I think it's a 50/50 gamble, best case scenario, in Portland, but it's a gamble I personally don't like.

[MRVphotog]

It's not just the Maine Mall out in that part of South Portland but all the big box, franchise food, little box sprawl that grew around it. Everything from Walmart, Sams Club to Dunkin Doughnuts and the hundreds in between.

Always some big box sprawl developement being built somewhere around Portland in the last 10 years. Brighton/Riverside Dr area recently. Any update on the Morrill Corners developement...big grocery store plus the usual add-ons?

I assume the Stroudwater folks are banking on that by the time they are ready for the grand opening the current financial problems will be the past plus it's another good location for folks from the region to hit since it's near an exit, an exit recently rebuilt, off I95.

[dubthang]

Stroudwater may or may not be the answer, I don't know. I do know that more houses there won't help anything. Westbrook is house crazy. More houses near the Portland line will only drive up the want/need for more suburban expansion in the form of grocery stores, clothing stores, etc. I don't find it to far fetched to see proposals for more commerce near the airport and outer Brighton if houses are built there. There are some huges undeveloped tracks of land out there.

The Stroudwater Place plan is different from other 'malls'. It is designed to be a gathering place. There are large open areas, eateries, outdoor activies, etc. It is trying to cater to many people so that it is not soley dependent on large high end retailers.

I don't support, but am not against this project.

[lrfox]

^It's called a "lifestyle center." It's a mall with some additional features. They have them all over the place (some have condos, some are on transit lines, some have gyms, etc). In fact, there are plans (that are on hold for financial reasons right now) for one at the Maine Mall which would force Best Buy across the street. Stroudwater would include an ice rink, movie theater (as if they need another one of those around Portland), 1,000,000sq feet of high end retail and 650,000 sq. feet of office.

[dubthang]

Well with the economy in the crapper, and the new middle school being built in Westbrook, I wouldn't be surprised if the town pushes Stroudwater Place through to get more money in their pockets.

[mainesnowflake]

Originally Posted by dubthang

While I agree that Stroudwater will put a damper on the surrounding areas, I also feel that it'll be a benefit in the long run. Westbrook let Wal-mart slip away, and many people feel that they would be doing the same thing to let this go too. The land to be used is a nice field between Rt. 25 and Stroudwater. It'd be a shame to see the field go, but if it does not become Stroudwater Place, it'll become a housing developement (which is way worse in my book). The stores will be high end, but I don't think that'll be a huge deal. Many people do buy that crap. Getting the stores here will be the biggest problem as was already stated.

I agree that the higher end stores will be hard to convince to come to stroudwater place.

The area just doesn't have the income to support those type of stores.
If they do their research on the household income data that will surely send up a red flag to the prospective retailers.