Moving to Portland soon (rental, safe, relocating to)

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by dubthang

Portland is what you make it. There are 'rougher' areas, but there is no place here that I would be afraid of walking through at any time. That said, I would have some concern for kids and women in some areas at night. My concern is, I believe, the normal male concern that any guy has for women and children at night. According to the news, it is actually males that seem to have the worst luck when it comes to crime around here.

The scum of the city seem to prey on easier targets. It all comes down to the way you carry yourself. Don't zone out to your ipod or cell phone at 2am while walking through shady areas. Be alert and confident, and you'll be fine.

As Winter approaches, a lot of the crime will vanish. Areas like Bayside, Grant St, and the west side of Munjoy Hill all get better as the homeless, the hookers, and the dealers are less active. Also school is in so many of the 'trying to be cool' kids aren't out at night.

Portland is a mix of urban. suburban, industrial, and rural, but it is still a city. Be smart, and you'll be fine.

Carry a gun and you'll be fine!

[lrfox]

A good point was made about "being smart" and using common sense. This is key no matter where you go. You need common sense in the smallest, pleasantville type town and it can keep you safe in the worst part of Camden, New Jersey.

With the exception of thefts and muggings (which you can reduce the risk of by using common sense), most violent crime isn't random. Gang (which there is minimal amounts of in Portland... there aren't gang occupied neighborhoods or the like, so don't be too concerned) violence is mostly found amongst gangs and involves drugs or other black market trade like weapons (again, this is gang issues in general, not pertinent to Portland and not really a problem there). Homicides are more often than not premeditated. Not getting involved with the wrong people (and knowing when you're aggravating the wrong person enough to the point where they'll harm you) exponentially reduces your risk of harm.

While thefts and muggings are random (and not an overwhelming problem in Portland though it does happen), you can easily reduce the risk of these things occurring to you. Don't walk alone at night covered in jewelery or flashing cash around. Don't leave valuables in a visible spot in your car and LOCK it. Everyone I know who has had their car broken into (including myself once in Farmington, ME) had something of value (i-pod, cell phone, gps unit, etc) sitting out in plain sight (in my case, it was an i-pod). People don't generally take the time to break windows of vehicles just to rifle around a car and see IF there's something of value. It's usually in plain sight and they do a quick smash and grab and leave. I was careful not to leave my car unlocked and valuables out for people to see when I lived in a "Bad" section of Portland. I parked on a dark side street and my out-of-state plates and foreign sports sedan could have been a bulls-eye. It was never an issue, nothing happened. None of the cars in our neighborhood were broken into during my time there. I'm not saying random thefts don't happen (the can and do in even the nicest towns across the nation), but you can GREATLY reduce your risk but being smart.

In the end, Portland's crime rate is right about at the national average. That "average" includes even the smallest, safest hamlets as well as the major cities so being ranked average is really not a bad thing at all for a city of 63,000. It's safer than most similarly sized towns (again, you can check the data on this website for a reference) and the similarly sized towns that rank better are really renowned nationwide for being incredibly safe (Newton, Somerville, Quincy and Framingham MA for example). Portland's not a a dangerous city. There are no neighborhoods that will put you in danger. If you don't like them or don't feel comfortable, there may be some better spots for you. However, there is no neighborhood in Portland that you should simply write-off immediately due to risk of danger. It's quite a safe city, see for yourself.

[dubthang]

Originally Posted by Maineah

Carry a gun and you'll be fine!

So you pull a gun on somebody trying to rob you... they had no intention of hurting you, but now they fear for their life and kill you first. Guns don't solve anything, I don't care if people have them, but it won't do you much good.

[shadeofgreen]

Originally Posted by maineguy8888

There are now actual gangs in the city. Not true 10-20 years ago.
Used to be, there were TOTALLY safe areas (like the West End). Now, some horrific crimes have shattered that fact. Really bad stuff is more random now, and can happen anywhere.
Criminal elements from away have targeted Portland, when the heat got too hot in Mass/NH/CT/RI or whereever. IT's prosperous, people trust, and there's little competition. So it's going to get worse.

Horrific crimes? Criminal elements? Feel free to cite your sources on this.

(There is 10 or 20 times more chance of running into trouble on the streets of Portland at 1:00 am than there is in my current town. That's just a fact. I DO like to take walks at midnight!)

That's entirely possible, but meaningless unless your anonymous current town is comparable to Portland. I mean, I spent a couple of weeks in New Sharon, and while I'm sure no one ever gets mugged there, that doesn't make it a place I wanna live.

[maineguy8888]

Originally Posted by lrfox

A good point was made about "being smart" and using common sense. This is key no matter where you go. You need common sense in the smallest, pleasantville type town and it can keep you safe in the worst part of Camden, New Jersey.

With the exception of thefts and muggings (which you can reduce the risk of by using common sense), most violent crime isn't random. Gang (which there is minimal amounts of in Portland... there aren't gang occupied neighborhoods or the like, so don't be too concerned) violence is mostly found amongst gangs and involves drugs or other black market trade like weapons (again, this is gang issues in general, not pertinent to Portland and not really a problem there). Homicides are more often than not premeditated. Not getting involved with the wrong people (and knowing when you're aggravating the wrong person enough to the point where they'll harm you) exponentially reduces your risk of harm.

While thefts and muggings are random (and not an overwhelming problem in Portland though it does happen), you can easily reduce the risk of these things occurring to you. Don't walk alone at night covered in jewelery or flashing cash around. Don't leave valuables in a visible spot in your car and LOCK it. Everyone I know who has had their car broken into (including myself once in Farmington, ME) had something of value (i-pod, cell phone, gps unit, etc) sitting out in plain sight (in my case, it was an i-pod). People don't generally take the time to break windows of vehicles just to rifle around a car and see IF there's something of value. It's usually in plain sight and they do a quick smash and grab and leave. I was careful not to leave my car unlocked and valuables out for people to see when I lived in a "Bad" section of Portland. I parked on a dark side street and my out-of-state plates and foreign sports sedan could have been a bulls-eye. It was never an issue, nothing happened. None of the cars in our neighborhood were broken into during my time there. I'm not saying random thefts don't happen (the can and do in even the nicest towns across the nation), but you can GREATLY reduce your risk but being smart.

In the end, Portland's crime rate is right about at the national average. That "average" includes even the smallest, safest hamlets as well as the major cities so being ranked average is really not a bad thing at all for a city of 63,000. It's safer than most similarly sized towns (again, you can check the data on this website for a reference) and the similarly sized towns that rank better are really renowned nationwide for being incredibly safe (Newton, Somerville, Quincy and Framingham MA for example). Portland's not a a dangerous city. There are no neighborhoods that will put you in danger. If you don't like them or don't feel comfortable, there may be some better spots for you. However, there is no neighborhood in Portland that you should simply write-off immediately due to risk of danger. It's quite a safe city, see for yourself.

The point about Porltand's crime not being random is actually what I was trying to address. Because I belive I must say this is false. Over the last 20 years, Portland's crime rate has not only risen, there is also now a strong element of randomness in it. Used to be, bad stuff happened on the Hill mostly, or in the few projects. Now, it is RANDOM. It sprouts up everywhere. So come on! Stop the untruthfulness folks. Just read the papers for a year and you'll see. Or live in the city as I did. I don't know why people are trying to cloud reality. As to the last line above, if you are walking around at night in parts of Munjoy, or at the foot of the hill, or in parts of Bayside, or Grant Street, or several other areas, you are DEFINITELY in danger. If nothing happens to you, good. You got lucky. BUT RECOGNIZE THAT YOU GOT LUCKY.
(The rush to bring in as many immigrants from totally different countries has NOT helped the crime situation, either.)

[maineguy8888]

Originally Posted by shadeofgreen

Horrific crimes? Criminal elements? Feel free to cite your sources on this.


That's entirely possible, but meaningless unless your anonymous current town is comparable to Portland. I mean, I spent a couple of weeks in New Sharon, and while I'm sure no one ever gets mugged there, that doesn't make it a place I wanna live.

I lived all over the city, and worked there too as a social worker for several different programs, all ages. Is that a fair source?? I also read the newspaper daily, watched the local news daily, went to graduate school in Portland and thus met daily with fellow social workers who worked all over the city in a variety of capacities.........I know more about crime in Portland than some cops do. Certainly more than most posters on here. If that sounds like bragging, I am just getting tired of posting things on this thread and then getting challenged by cheerleaders. As i said, I engage in cheerleading too at times even when reality says otherwise. It's one of my flaws. But the OP asked for facts.

And stick to the point. Just because you aren't in the position of raising a family, and looking for safe community to do so, does not mean it's time to go off on a tangent about how bad New Sharon is as a place to live.

[dubthang]

Originally Posted by maineguy8888

The point about Porltand's crime not being random is actually what I was trying to address. Because I belive I must say this is false. Over the last 20 years, Portland's crime rate has not only risen, there is also now a strong element of randomness in it. Used to be, bad stuff happened on the Hill mostly, or in the few projects. Now, it is RANDOM. It sprouts up everywhere. So come on! Stop the untruthfulness folks. Just read the papers for a year and you'll see. Or live in the city as I did. I don't know why people are trying to cloud reality. As to the last line above, if you are walking around at night in parts of Munjoy, or at the foot of the hill, or in parts of Bayside, or Grant Street, or several other areas, you are DEFINITELY in danger. If nothing happens to you, good. You got lucky. BUT RECOGNIZE THAT YOU GOT LUCKY.
(The rush to bring in as many immigrants from totally different countries has NOT helped the crime situation, either.)

I think you last line best addresses your view on crime in Portland, generalizations. Right now may people have been hit hard by the economy so the crime rate goes up. It doesn't matter what a person's background is to cause a crime. Sure, some 'fresh off the boat' types take the wrong path, but so do many, many people born right here in the states.

The acts of violence may be random, as in no cause to initiate them, but there aren't random acts all over Portland. There are people out all hours of the night, all over town. If this place was truly unsafe then why aren't all these people staying inside?

[lrfox]

maineguy8888,

First of all, let me say that I've always enjoyed most of your posts and I think you provide a wealth of information to the forum. However, I completely disagree with you here.

I think you're perspective on this may be a little tainted/limited. As a social worker, you are exposed to some of the most troubled people in an area. My uncle was a social worker in rural Vermont and his experiences made me feel like the small area he worked in was a warzone. In your profession you frequently deal with socially troubled individuals and it's easy to see why that could taint a viewpoint. While you may deal with these individuals on a daily basis, it's important to remember that they are a tiny fraction of the overall population. The criminals you deal with are but a tiny blip on the radar of a pretty clean bigger picture.

I DO read the newspaper and other sources. I also lived in Portland for 4 years (in a "bad" area as you would call it). It was anything but dangerous. The one violent crime that happened within 2 blocks of my apartment was a non-fatal stabbing. It was two individuals fighting over a relationship with a woman. They were under the influence of alcohol. It was HARDLY random (I walked by the stabber almost daily/nightly without incident).

Random violent crime isn't a big problem in Portland. In any area where there are more people, the chances of incident obviously increase, but at 63,000 residents, Portland does well. I can't think of any current news (within the past few years) about a random violent crime in Portland. You were asked for an example earlier, and have provided none. I looked at some sites and couldn't find any. The fact of the matter is that people in Portland don't just randomly hurt other people. No matter what the neighborhood.

Furthermore, Portland's crime rate is right about at the national average (and as of 2007 it's lower than it had been for more than 5 years... a decrease, NOT an increase). Keep in mind that that national average reflects the smallest towns as well as the biggest cities. There are a LOT more small towns and quiet suburbs than there are big cities so the data is infused with MANY more small communities. For Portland to rank just about at the national crime average (with a population of 63,000) that's very good. The crime data doesn't reflect your opinion at all.

Now, on to the matter of perspective. You say you've lived all over Portland. Great. Portland's a safe little city in one of the top 3 safest states in the nation (here's the proof if you want to see it yourself). The fact of the matter is that most similarly sized independent cities (with the obvious exception of suburban hamlets like Newton MA which house only higher income residents) rank a LOT worse than Portland when it comes to crime. I'm not talking Boston, NYC, Detroit, Baltimore, etc.. I'm talking about cities with a relatively close population to Portland.

I can tell you that having lived in and around cities like Providence RI, New Bedford MA, and a few larger ones (D.C. and Boston), Portland's crime pales in comparison. With the exception of D.C. (which again, is much larger) those cities aren't necessarily bad in terms of crime at all. Portland benefits from not having really any large low-income housing projects (with the exception of the small one just east of Franklin Art. and South of Fox St.) which is where most random crime occurs in cities as they tend to house large gangs who use fear to control non-gangmember and rival gangs (of course if you were in a rival gang, it's no longer "random").

Portland doesn't have a gang problem. I'm not saying there are no "gangs," but the term is used VERY loosely. In cities where there are gang problems, gangs control turf (I remember people giving directions in New Bedford by saying "careful, that's 'United Front's' turf from Kempton over to Court") and literally battle rival gangs for territory (within which they control drug deals, prostitution, etc). You have NONE of that in Portland (I knew college kids in Providence who got beat up for selling a joint in a gang's territory... that would NEVER happen in Portland). Gangs in Portland are more often than not, a few high school kids who sneak out of the house on school nights and "tag" open walls with graffiti.

I'm not trying to paint an image of Portland as a "Pleasantville," it certainly isn't. Bad things can happen and even if there's only ONE random crime in the history of the city, to the victim, it certainly counts. I'm not trying to "cheerlead" either; if you read my posts you'll see that I can be highly critical of Portland for many things (in fact, I had so many issues with Portland as a whole that I really wanted to leave by the end of my tenure there), but crime isn't one of them. A place like Grant Street may be "tough" for Maine; but seing as it's the third safest state in the nation, that's not saying much at all. I could be the worse basketball player in the NBA, but I'm still a NBA basketball player which is VERY good. It's all about perspective and relativity, and using other sections of Portland and Maine as a reference for crime is a TERRIBLE measure as it's simply not a dangerous place. MOST people who relocate to Portland from anywhere in the country else would get a kick out of the notion that some place like Grant St. is "dangerous." It's just not that bad. At all. "Horrific" crimes can happen anywhere and when they do, it's a tragedy. They don't happen with more frequency in Portland than they do anywhere else (really, they happen less in Portland).

The bottom line is that while Portland is far from perfection (what place is perfect?), it's just not that TERRIBLE. A bad neighborhood in Portland (i.e. Grant Street) is probably a moderate or good in most other cities.

While I find you're entire attitude towards this issue as very "Chicken Little" ("the sky is falling!"), I found the last sentence in your post--

(The rush to bring in as many immigrants from totally different countries has NOT helped the crime situation, either.)

-- to be the most telling. Portland is a city that as of the latest census estimates is still right about 91% non-hispanic white. It's in the whitest state in the nation. Long story short, minority populations aren't a problem in Portland. It's crazy to blame criminal problems on immigrants especially when Portland simply doesn't have that many. It's lilly-white.

I wasn't safe for for years because I was lucky, I was safe for 2 reasons. 1) Common sense. Simply put, I used it and remained fine. and 2) Because Portland is a safe little city. There are no places where I need to fear getting knifed by some street scum or murdered for my shoes. It's not that type of town and if you think it is, I'd really like it if you could visit an area that really IS bad. You'd change your mind in a hurry.

[dubthang]

lrfox - It's funny that you brought up the stabbing that happened last Thanksgiving. That happened on the 2nd floor of my apartment. My gf and I heard the entire thing. That said, I still don't thing Portland is dangerous even with stabbings happening directly over my bedroom.

[maineguy8888]

Originally Posted by lrfox

maineguy8888,

First of all, let me say that I've always enjoyed most of your posts and I think you provide a wealth of information to the forum. However, I completely disagree with you here.

I think you're perspective on this may be a little tainted/limited. As a social worker, you are exposed to some of the most troubled people in an area. My uncle was a social worker in rural Vermont and his experiences made me feel like the small area he worked in was a warzone. In your profession you frequently deal with socially troubled individuals and it's easy to see why that could taint a viewpoint. While you may deal with these individuals on a daily basis, it's important to remember that they are a tiny fraction of the overall population. The criminals you deal with are but a tiny blip on the radar of a pretty clean bigger picture.

I DO read the newspaper and other sources. I also lived in Portland for 4 years (in a "bad" area as you would call it). It was anything but dangerous. The one violent crime that happened within 2 blocks of my apartment was a non-fatal stabbing. It was two individuals fighting over a relationship with a woman. They were under the influence of alcohol. It was HARDLY random (I walked by the stabber almost daily/nightly without incident).

Random violent crime isn't a big problem in Portland. In any area where there are more people, the chances of incident obviously increase, but at 63,000 residents, Portland does well. I can't think of any current news (within the past few years) about a random violent crime in Portland. You were asked for an example earlier, and have provided none. I looked at some sites and couldn't find any. The fact of the matter is that people in Portland don't just randomly hurt other people. No matter what the neighborhood.

Furthermore, Portland's crime rate is right about at the national average (and as of 2007 it's lower than it had been for more than 5 years... a decrease, NOT an increase). Keep in mind that that national average reflects the smallest towns as well as the biggest cities. There are a LOT more small towns and quiet suburbs than there are big cities so the data is infused with MANY more small communities. For Portland to rank just about at the national crime average (with a population of 63,000) that's very good. The crime data doesn't reflect your opinion at all.

Now, on to the matter of perspective. You say you've lived all over Portland. Great. Portland's a safe little city in one of the top 3 safest states in the nation (here's the proof if you want to see it yourself). The fact of the matter is that most similarly sized independent cities (with the obvious exception of suburban hamlets like Newton MA which house only higher income residents) rank a LOT worse than Portland when it comes to crime. I'm not talking Boston, NYC, Detroit, Baltimore, etc.. I'm talking about cities with a relatively close population to Portland.

I can tell you that having lived in and around cities like Providence RI, New Bedford MA, and a few larger ones (D.C. and Boston), Portland's crime pales in comparison. With the exception of D.C. (which again, is much larger) those cities aren't necessarily bad in terms of crime at all. Portland benefits from not having really any large low-income housing projects (with the exception of the small one just east of Franklin Art. and South of Fox St.) which is where most random crime occurs in cities as they tend to house large gangs who use fear to control non-gangmember and rival gangs (of course if you were in a rival gang, it's no longer "random").

Portland doesn't have a gang problem. I'm not saying there are no "gangs," but the term is used VERY loosely. In cities where there are gang problems, gangs control turf (I remember people giving directions in New Bedford by saying "careful, that's 'United Front's' turf from Kempton over to Court") and literally battle rival gangs for territory (within which they control drug deals, prostitution, etc). You have NONE of that in Portland (I knew college kids in Providence who got beat up for selling a joint in a gang's territory... that would NEVER happen in Portland). Gangs in Portland are more often than not, a few high school kids who sneak out of the house on school nights and "tag" open walls with graffiti.

I'm not trying to paint an image of Portland as a "Pleasantville," it certainly isn't. Bad things can happen and even if there's only ONE random crime in the history of the city, to the victim, it certainly counts. I'm not trying to "cheerlead" either; if you read my posts you'll see that I can be highly critical of Portland for many things (in fact, I had so many issues with Portland as a whole that I really wanted to leave by the end of my tenure there), but crime isn't one of them. A place like Grant Street may be "tough" for Maine; but seing as it's the third safest state in the nation, that's not saying much at all. I could be the worse basketball player in the NBA, but I'm still a NBA basketball player which is VERY good. It's all about perspective and relativity, and using other sections of Portland and Maine as a reference for crime is a TERRIBLE measure as it's simply not a dangerous place. MOST people who relocate to Portland from anywhere in the country else would get a kick out of the notion that some place like Grant St. is "dangerous." It's just not that bad. At all. "Horrific" crimes can happen anywhere and when they do, it's a tragedy. They don't happen with more frequency in Portland than they do anywhere else (really, they happen less in Portland).

The bottom line is that while Portland is far from perfection (what place is perfect?), it's just not that TERRIBLE. A bad neighborhood in Portland (i.e. Grant Street) is probably a moderate or good in most other cities.

While I find you're entire attitude towards this issue as very "Chicken Little" ("the sky is falling!"), I found the last sentence in your post-- -- to be the most telling. Portland is a city that as of the latest census estimates is still right about 91% non-hispanic white. It's in the whitest state in the nation. Long story short, minority populations aren't a problem in Portland. It's crazy to blame criminal problems on immigrants especially when Portland simply doesn't have that many. It's lilly-white.

I wasn't safe for for years because I was lucky, I was safe for 2 reasons. 1) Common sense. Simply put, I used it and remained fine. and 2) Because Portland is a safe little city. There are no places where I need to fear getting knifed by some street scum or murdered for my shoes. It's not that type of town and if you think it is, I'd really like it if you could visit an area that really IS bad. You'd change your mind in a hurry.

SORRY for the long quote, but I'll never remember your post without it.
i appreciate your posts also. You have lived in some really, REALLY bad places, so that makes Portland look better. Makes sense. I am from "safeville USA" so it seems worse to me. Also makes sense.
I never said Portland was exceptionally dangerous! (read my posts). I know it is not. (I have been in some really REALLY bad places too, outside of Maine).
It IS becoming more dangerous. I think in the 60s and 70s it was probably a much sleepier, safer place. But, the whole city is changing.
It's also a social service hub for the whole northeast now. That brings in some trouble with it.
There is more randomness to the crimes. Even ultra-safe West End is no longer free of crime popping up. (That Mercy Hospital worker was murdered on duty a year or so ago...........in a "safe" area. Pretty shocking).
There is not a huge gang problem, true! All I said was there are now gangs. (I worked with some ex-gangsters. And some current ones too lol).
And as for examples, I don't like to argue by example. It should be a supporting tool, behind statistics, etc. But consider the man beaten to death in Kennedy Park last year, by a gang. Pretty savage. Or the massive car break in nights that have happened. Or the random windshield breaking runs. Or the stuff within a block or two of the Old Port after midnight (knife points, beatings, etc)........it is now kind of risky to be right downtown after 11:00, midnight or whatever.
Okay, enough for now. We'll keep adding our perspectives....