Interested in relocating to Portland... we have a few questions

[grimstuff]

I apologize if i'm completely misinterpreting this, but, could that exuberance be attributed to the housing bubble/crisis?

I think the poster was referring to the fact that Maine's economy did not grow as much as the rest of the nation. I don't have it right now, but it was something like Maine economy growing about 9% from 1990-2000, while the US as a whole grew around 13% in the same period. Similarly, I'm sure Maine lagged way behind the rest of the nation as far as the housing bubble... of course which also means it may have not been hit as hard as say CA, AZ, and the rest. Doesn't mean they didn't get impacted, but that the ups and downs may not be so drastic as other places.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by grimstuff

I think the poster was referring to the fact that Maine's economy did not grow as much as the rest of the nation. I don't have it right now, but it was something like Maine economy growing about 9% from 1990-2000, while the US as a whole grew around 13% in the same period. Similarly, I'm sure Maine lagged way behind the rest of the nation as far as the housing bubble... of course which also means it may have not been hit as hard as say CA, AZ, and the rest. Doesn't mean they didn't get impacted, but that the ups and downs may not be so drastic as other places.

The real estate prices ON THE COAST of Maine, though somewhat lower than they were, remain quite high. The rest of Maine has seen a bigger decline in housing values. Coastal property always demands a premium price as does property in some of the more desireable towns in Southern Maine like Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cape Elizabeth, and to a lesser extent Cumberland, Freeport, and the Durham/Pownal areas. The value of our home in Freeport has declined very little while a similar home in Washington County for example could have lost up to 40% of it's value in the past few years. While the values of these properties have remained high there are few buyers for homes in the area. There are many houses on the market, some of them for quite some time now and more than a few are empty or have been put up for rent as the owners have moved from the area.

[maineguy8888]

I've lived in both north and south parts of Maine several times. Move back and forth.
The "trees" thing is comical. No, there are more than a few trees lining the roads. There are forests and woods EVERYWHERE, north of Portland. (One area is a bit different: where I live now has tons of woods but also has 100,000 acres of various crop lands...........a nice mixture.)
Now, the cold. You have had some taste of it. That's good. It gets a bit colder than that here. Be aware of that.
Snow is easier to handle, unless you have to shovel a long driveway. (UGH!!)
Jobs: Depends on your willingness to drive. There ARE jobs. Not easy to find, but if you are willing to drive half an hour to an hour, you can definitely get a job.
BE AWARE: The Portland/southern Maine area has very little in common with the rest of Maine!! There is a very well-known thing here called "The two Maines". It is real.

One more thing about home prices: The coast and southern Maine HAS been hit hard, but prices there are still MUCH higher than the rest of Maine. They had gotten insane over the last 10 years. The people moving in to that area over the last few years are mostly pretty wealthy/secure. They can make a go of it, and buy a house, etc.
Correction: Arooostook County was the only county in Maine in 2008 that saw real estate prices RISE. This year, they have dipped a bit, as have sales. We definitely did not have any "bubble", like southern Maine. Prices just slowly rose over the last decade. It's still cheap to buy a home here (we were lucky enough to get a nice 1890 Victorian with 2,000 sf, a well-maintained barn, and over half an acre, in a great neighborhood for $103,000 last year). It's just not RIDICULOUSLY cheap any more lol.

[grimstuff]

Correction: Arooostook County was the only county in Maine in 2008 that saw real estate prices RISE. This year, they have dipped a bit, as have sales. We definitely did not have any "bubble", like southern Maine. Prices just slowly rose over the last decade. It's still cheap to buy a home here (we were lucky enough to get a nice 1890 Victorian with 2,000 sf, a well-maintained barn, and over half an acre, in a great neighborhood for $103,000 last year). It's just not RIDICULOUSLY cheap any more lol.

LOL, I still think I'd call that "ridiculously cheap," at least from my unfortunate perspective of living in CA. Congratulations on such a nice find!

[Acadianlion]

Originally Posted by maineguy8888

Please forgive Acadianliion if he seems a bit blunt...........you must understand though that your query is probably the thousandth similar one from folks from away to hit this forum.....
Acadianlion, your patience and store of energy is quite remarkable lol.........

In point of fact, I make every attempt to be completely blunt to the point of being rude or even appearing hostile. Some people have taken this for being negative about being in Maine and they are absolutely wrong. While I believe that there are other states, and other areas within all states that living in and raising a family in will yield a terrific life, I also believe that Maine is unique in the nation in containing all of the things that make for a positive whole life experience.

I also believe that the majority of Americans have no idea what it is like to live anywhere other than what has been called "Generica". Generica essentially is an American lifestyle that revolves around consumerism, and that consumerism requires an income to expesnse ratio that allows it. That kind of living generally does NOT exist in Maine simply because the population is too small, the population centers are too spread out, and the general philosophical approach to the economy by the state as a whole and the state government in particular, is against the kind of business and industrial growth that enables it.

Now for a young couple trying to raise a family in Maine, I can forecast a very tough time unless there are enough built in skills and finances to enable a smooth transition from a relatively wealthy area like Tucson to a relatively impoverished area like Maine.

I believe that the state's income per capita figures are screwy. I believe that the state's official income per capita or per family figures do not include the majority of people who are NOT employed, and therfore the real numbers for income per capital are far smaller than published. Perhaps this is so for everywhere, but I believe it to be so here. This by itself isn't necessarily a killer, but when you start thinking of famlies, one of the major expenses for a famly with small children will be medical treatment...HEALTH CARE. This must be addressed by HEALTH INSURANCE, and unless the family is lucky enough to be covered by a group health insurance policy, buying health insurance on the open market as a family unit will be a financially crippling experience. The premiums will be an enormously high percentage of annual income AND the deductibles for any medical services will be enormously high as a percentage of weekly wage, also.

What this means is that in order to afford a mortgage, a car or two, and other necessities like clothing and food, the typical family moving here will need to have both adults working. This will add the cost of child care to the family budget.

This will largely eliminate the chances for the typical family to have any sort of reserve against emergency, so unless there is a certain level of financial security (savings, grandmother's trust fund...something!) when they first arrive here, I can flatly say that times will be very, very tough.

I think I know of where I speak. There were days that first year when I picked mussels and clams off the beach for dinner simply because I decided that driviing the four miles to the grocery store would consume too much gas to justify it. This was luxurious living that I could "afford" because I was alone. Had I had a family, it would have been impossible.

It's easier now in many ways. Our social systems are far more developed, and there are child welfare programs that even in this day of cuts at all levels of governmental expenditure will keep the children alive. Still and all, without education complete and marketable skills in a small economy READY to be used, moving to Maine will be no slam dunk victory.

This young poster has little chance of finding employment that will support the child in the first or second year in Maine. The young wife will be giving birth just before coming here, and although she intends to use her teaching degree, there is no guarantee that once she has a child she will either be able to or want to do so. In addition to that, coming to Maine from Arizona as a first year teacher, she will be in competition with first year teachers from ALL of the teacher prep colleges in Maine who will be vying for the same positions that are available. How many of those will there be, since teaching positions in some communities have been eliminated in this recession and may not be reinstated for years, if ever?


The young husband has limited job skills primarily in the food service industry. His interests are in high end restaurants (fine dining). In the winter I wonder how many "fine dining" restaurants there are in Maine? Well, in Portland there may be two or three. I can't think of one in Bangor, and along the coast here, there is one that I can think of but there is NO job opportunity as there is only one person on the waitstaff in addition to the owner. In order to make a living as a waitstaff person in fine dining, there must be a solid summer with a high traffic count from tourism, and that combination has been pretty weak here in Maine for two years. How many experienced, qualified waitstaff are there who would love to get a job in one of the twenty or thirty true, "fine dining" establishments in Maine. (I doubt that there are more than twenty or thirty true, "fine dining" restaurants in Maine. This is NOT southern California, or even Tucson.).

So, I stand by my hard and cruel advice: stay where you are. Have yoru child, get some more formal education and save some money. Your child hasn't been born yet, so don't even begin to think about schools. You have at least five years before you need to think about the quality of education for your family. Your needs are far more immediate. In three years if Maine still beckons, then you can be in a position to make the move from a position of strength and preparation. That way your family will be guaranteed a seamless transition to what you will have learned will be a great life experience with minimal hardship.

[mainegrl2011]

Your girlfriend is not going to make a lot of money as a first year elementary school teacher in Maine. I think the base salary (gross) for a first year teacher is around $30,000. Net pay maybe $20,000. (This salary might be acceptable to you depending on your overall financial condition--I think someone mentioned savings or a trust fund.) Something to consider: Could your family live on her salary (only) if she found a job first or on your salary only if you found a job first? Sounds like you would need daycare for your child since there will be no extended family for help and/or support. Daycare is a considerable expense.

Ed Tech positions are advertised quite often paying less than $20 per hour. An Ed Tech position is similar to a teacher assistant position. To be an Ed Tech III requires 90 hours of college credit and a certification process by the state which includes fingerprinting and background check. (You pay for this.) Some of the Ed Tech III job descriptions prefer a four year degree with teacher certification. That means the school system gets someone with higher qualifications and pays them less than they would have to pay if the position was advertised as a teaching position. One of my nieces started out as an Ed Tech and then found a position as an elementary teacher a couple of years later.

Another niece trained to be a chef and got a job in the deli at a grocery store. You can probably get a job cooking in a restaurant, but the higher paid "chef" positions may not be easy to come by. If you can live on less money than you might make in a different state as a trade off for the Maine quality and way of life, then I think you would be happy in Maine. Acadianlion does give some thoughtful realistic advice to pretty much everyone on the forum considering a move to Maine. You might want to look at rental property listed on craig's list and don't underestimate electric and the cost of home heating bills in Maine. If you have $ saved for a downpayment on a house, check out the MLS listings as well.

One last thing, is your wife aware that teachers in Maine do not pay in to social security? Also, while some states offer full retirement for teachers after 25 or 30 years of service, I believe you must be age 60 in Maine even if you have been teaching 40 years. You might want to check on the details of the later in life retirement aspects of teaching in Maine. Some will probably say there won't be any social security when your wife is ready to retire anyway so I will go ahead and say it and they won't have to. Staying put for now and furthering your education and saving money sound like good advice to me.

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by Acadianlion

Today plan a trip to Maine to explore the state and look for positions. Since you have wanted to talk about Portland, it is easy. Plan on flying to Portland in early December perhaps, or even January or February would be better as the winter is darkest and most severe after January. Rent a car and plan on spending the next two weeks traveling and meeting people in the various parts of Maine that you have spent the next two weeks reading about and learning about. You will by then have made contact with school departments throughout the state and perhaps have even been able to line up an interview for an entry level position for the fall of 2010 for your wife. You should be able to contact some restaurants and should be able to meet some restaurateurs and discuss employment possibilities for when you arrive. Lastly, you can do a search for accomodations that will be available to you when you arrive. This two week trip to Maine will give you a flavor of Maine, the way it is, since you will be coming in the winter or at least deep fall and not the seductive spring of summer. We have a saying here that is appropriate here, and very, very true: "If you can't stand the winters, you don't deserve the summers". Believe it. (No, the winters here are NOT like they are in the west.)

Acadianlion I for once have to disagree with you....

This nice young couple does not have the resources or life experiences to make such a trip and digest weather or not they will like it here.. or not??

I say at this age go ahead and do your research...then pick 3 or 4 locations here in the North east that at the very least look like a good match on paper.. Now start looking for work... you will have a chance to come here for a weekend or two to interview and get hired.. the 1st "real" employment opportunity that comes your way go ahead DO IT!

Experience life now! you have time to find what you like, dont like..make mistakes and such... even with a newborn you have a solid 5 years to get settled.

My only suggestion is look for work that will give you SKILLS.. a trade, something specific that if or when you decide your ready to head back west you will go back with confidance..

DO NOT COME HERE WITH OUT A JOB... As much as Mainers love to see people moving here with out a job or even a desire to get one..

you would not like it...

As far as your wife is concerned.. I will dispute that teachers in Maine are not well paid.. however they have a **** poor retirement plan through the state... NH is much better and so is Mass.

Good luck!

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by flycessna

Acadianlion I for once have to disagree with you....

This nice young couple does not have the resources or life experiences to make such a trip and digest weather or not they will like it here.. or not??

I say at this age go ahead and do your research...then pick 3 or 4 locations here in the North east that at the very least look like a good match on paper.. Now start looking for work... you will have a chance to come here for a weekend or two to interview and get hired.. the 1st "real" employment opportunity that comes your way go ahead DO IT!

Experience life now! you have time to find what you like, dont like..make mistakes and such... even with a newborn you have a solid 5 years to get settled.

My only suggestion is look for work that will give you SKILLS.. a trade, something specific that if or when you decide your ready to head back west you will go back with confidance..

DO NOT COME HERE WITH OUT A JOB... As much as Mainers love to see people moving here with out a job or even a desire to get one..

you would not like it...

As far as your wife is concerned.. I will dispute that teachers in Maine are not well paid.. however they have a **** poor retirement plan through the state... NH is much better and so is Mass.

Good luck!

Do you call a starting salary of $31,000 good money?

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by Maineah

Do you call a starting salary of $31,000 good money?

Maineah, that is the state minimum starting salary... many municpalities pay over that.. there was an earlier thread in which I got coppies of the contracts for several sad's and cities.. your average teacher in southern Maine can expect to be making mid to upper 30's before 5 years.. and it just continues.. My BOL has 8 years and is over 40k here in lewiston.My MOL here in Lewisotn is in the upper 50's here in Lewiston...(obviously she is at the top of the scale) One of my best friends is a teacher in yarmouth.. he makes 63k

If you want to go teach in arroostic county and make the minimum...thats fine.. but there are tons of opportunties to make a decent pay check here in Maine as a teacher. Even compared to Mass our teachers are doing well especially when considering the cost of living.

Also Maine only requires that you need a 4 year degree.. a lot of states now require a masters like Ma.

But ultimtely.. do I think 31k a year for a 24 year old kid fresh out of college, here in Maine, getting summers off and mulitple holidays vacations during the school year is a good start.... yes

Could it be more....maybe? but then i would have to look at Maine in general and see whats out there... With out looking I would imagine not much