Interested in relocating to Portland... we have a few questions (Bar Harbor: rental car, fit in)

[InLimbo520]

Hi! We are a young (mid 20s) couple with a newborn on the way and have focused in on Portland, ME as a possibility for our new home to settle down in.

Long story "short":

I'm fairly well traveled, having lived primarily in E Texas and Omaha, NE.
I recently moved west to Oregon and we both now reside in Tucson, AZ.
My girlfriend pretty much grew up in Portland, OR and has never been east of AZ.
I've been to Albany, NY and NYC, but thats my limited knowledge of the Northeast...

We've got our first child on the way and if our timing goes as planned he/she will be about 5 months old around moving time.

Our main concern is the job market. My experience thus far has been waiting tables in both a fine dining restaurant and a brewpub. It turns out though, we both got laid off back in January and that prompted our move out of Eugene, OR due to the troubled local economy.

Our main work/school objectives upon arrival would be:
1) A job in elementary education for her, since she recently graduated
2) I am interested in gaining new skills (i.e. skilled labor) while....
continuing to use my restaurant experience until I'm marketable with a new skill set.

I've noticed people mention the idea that Maine has a somewhat independent economy, as if you aren't feeling the direct effects of the recession. Any thoughts?

Is it tough for newcomers to get started in the area with no connections?

Random question: Why isn't the population larger in Portland or Maine overall? We figure it's because you guys are so far north? Any ideas on this? It just seems too good to be true...

We are big on eating organic and recycling, are there any areas that specifically cater to that more than others?

It feels like the only catch involved is the 3000 mile drive to get there. On the surface, Portland, ME seems like a good fit for us to start a family. This move would essentially be our more permanent living arrangement change, from a previously sporadic/nomadic style. We see Portland, ME as a blend of many things we like in a place... coastal, forested, outdoorsy, etc... We have had our sights on Boulder, CO area so far, but that choice seems a bit landlocked, predictable, and clichéd (to us). Any thoughts are very much appreciated! Thanks!!!

[island mermaid]

I think AcadianLion might have a few words of advice for you. Heed his word. He knows of which he speaks.

[Acadianlion]

There are many many posts like that that have appeared on this forum over the time that I have been reading it. Many are from young people such as you, and many are from people who are older. The vast majority speak of a yearning of what they think Maine is and can be for them. Most are from people who have not done enough research about Maine to know much about it besides having watched "Murder She Wrote" on television, read "Downeast" magazine, or looked through an L.L. Bean catalog. Maine is not like any of those references. Although I may be perceived as "raining on your parade", I am going to answer your inquiry directly without enthusiasm or coloration. At the end, I am going to give you the best word of advice that anyone can give you.

Originally Posted by InLimbo520

Hi! We are a young (mid 20s) couple with a newborn on the way and have focused in on Portland, ME as a possibility for our new home to settle down in.

Long story "short":

I'm fairly well traveled, having lived primarily in E Texas and Omaha, NE.
I recently moved west to Oregon and we both now reside in Tucson, AZ.
My girlfriend pretty much grew up in Portland, OR and has never been east of AZ.
I've been to Albany, NY and NYC, but thats my limited knowledge of the Northeast...

We've got our first child on the way and if our timing goes as planned he/she will be about 5 months old around moving time. Congratulations on the pending arrival of your newborn. That even will completely change what you think you want to do, and are able to do in the space of the time it takes for your wife to deliver.

Our main concern is the job market. My experience thus far has been waiting tables in both a fine dining restaurant and a brewpub. It turns out though, we both got laid off back in January and that prompted our move out of Eugene, OR due to the troubled local economy. And rightfully so. Maine is no different than any other state. We are surely touched by the recession, although much of the rest of the US enjoyed a kind of exuberence that never really got to Maine at all.

Our main work/school objectives upon arrival would be:
1) A job in elementary education for her, since she recently graduated

Begin today. Pick up the telephone and begin to call the school systems in Maine and discuss the availability of positions here. She may luck out and find an entry level teaching position, but you should be aware that unless she is here in Maine when she applies, she will be number 487 on the short list for the job, and many of the available teaching positions will be interviewing "entry level" teachers who already have something added, such as their Masters degree. But first you need to make some calls. Don't waste too much time on the Internet: personal phone calls will give you the direct truth immediately. It is the truth that you need.

2) I am interested in gaining new skills (i.e. skilled labor) while....
continuing to use my restaurant experience until I'm marketable with a new skill set.Really. What sort of "skilled labor" are you looking for? What industries? Doing what? Quite frankly, I think that if, and it is a big IF, your wife can get a teaching position, you may find yourself being a stay at home Dad and taking care of the infant. I doubt that you will be able to land in Maine, ESPECIALLY the greater Portland area, and afford to live there on a teacher's entry level salary AND pay for full time child care for a newborn. Portland and the greater Portland area is the largest population area in Maine. It is also far and away the most expensive area in Maine to live.

I've noticed people mention the idea that Maine has a somewhat independent economy, as if you aren't feeling the direct effects of the recession. Any thoughts? Really? I wonder what people have "mentioned the idea that Maine has a somewhat independent economy". Maine has a very narrow economic base. The principal industries in Maine are based on tourism. Gone are the days when Maine had a thriving fisheries industry, and the paper industry is dying at the hands of international competition. Maine's wood products industry is dying off at the hands of transportation, foreign competition and environmental fascism. The result is that Maine's population is older than the rest of the nation in large measure and younger people looking for a place to come to raise a family are leaving to go to areas that offer job and economic growth.

Is it tough for newcomers to get started in the area with no connections?

Absolutely. The first rule to follow is to be here. You have few if any marketable skills. Therefore you will be an also ran among those looking for whatever jobs are available. This isn't new. I moved to Maine more than thirty years ago, a newly divorced man with two degrees. There was NO work available for which I was prepared, and to tide me over, I started a business doing odd jobs using my seventh grade shop skills. I didn't make any money, but I fed myself and managed to pay my bills. I had something else going for me, also: I had a place to live for the cost of operating it, and I had some family in the general area. Don't get too excited though, because in late October I had to turn off the water, and the single walled camp that I lived in had only a small fireplace and an antique cookstove for heat. I "enjoyed" six degrees many mornings inside that camp that first year.

Random question: Why isn't the population larger in Portland or Maine overall? We figure it's because you guys are so far north? Any ideas on this? It just seems too good to be true...

"Too good to be true"? Well, it depends on your viewpoint. The reason the population is so small is because there is NO economic opportunity here. There is very, very little industry of any sort, and unless you have some skills that can be utilized by an aging population, you will find it hard to make a living. Maine is a very big state by eastern standards, and our 1/3 million people are really spread out in very, very small towns. It is hard to get from place to place because of distance and relatively narrow two lane roads. There is also a considerable difference between living in the southwestern corner of Maine which is the greater Portland area, and the rest of the state: the greater Portland area is much more like a suburb of Boston, while the remainder of the state is very rural, and much, much poorer. And the local economies reflect that.

We are big on eating organic and recycling, are there any areas that specifically cater to that more than others?

Terrific. You will first need to find a way to pay for food of any type. You can find organic and ethnic foods of all sorts throughout Maine because Maine does have a fairly cosmopolitan population, albeit a small one. Your biggest problem will be finding a place to live that you can afford, and the means to pay for it. Worry about what you eat later.

It feels like the only catch involved is the 3000 mile drive to get there. On the surface, Portland, ME seems like a good fit for us to start a family.

Really? Let's see: move to a state with a small population and small economy that is scattered out over an area larger than all five other New England states combined, where the chances of finding year round employment in the restaurant industry are slim, where entry level teachers are paid barely enough to pay the rent, and where child care is as expensive as anywhere else. And you consider this a "good" plan? Here's a factoid: Maine has ONE health insurance company (Anthem Blue Cross). The cost of health insurance for you and your family will likely be in the $12-1500 per month range and you will also face a deductible of as much as $1,000 per person. Your wife may have coverage IF she can find a teaching position, but my guess is that you will have a period of time where you won't have any coverage, and that will risk the health and welfare of a small infant.

This move would essentially be our more permanent living arrangement change, from a previously sporadic/nomadic style. We see Portland, ME as a blend of many things we like in a place... coastal, forested, outdoorsy, etc... We have had our sights on Boulder, CO area so far, but that choice seems a bit landlocked, predictable, and clichéd (to us). Any thoughts are very much appreciated! Thanks!!!

OK. I could go on and on, but I will stop at this point. Do I sound terribly negative? I hope so, yet I don't want to discourage you from coming to Maine and exploring to see if what you find will work. The one bright spot is that you plan to arrive in April or May, and that is the time that a lot of restaurants are opening for the summer tourist season. The bad part is that "fine dining and brew pubs" are not common outside of the city of Portland, the larger cities and the very expensive coastal areas such as Bar Harbor. You won't find anywhere to live quickly moving here at that time, and there is NO WAY that you will just waltz in and get a job and place to live without a lot of preparation.

Now, I said I would offer some advice and I will. Here is is, very, very simply:

Today plan a trip to Maine to explore the state and look for positions. Since you have wanted to talk about Portland, it is easy. Plan on flying to Portland in early December perhaps, or even January or February would be better as the winter is darkest and most severe after January. Rent a car and plan on spending the next two weeks traveling and meeting people in the various parts of Maine that you have spent the next two weeks reading about and learning about. You will by then have made contact with school departments throughout the state and perhaps have even been able to line up an interview for an entry level position for the fall of 2010 for your wife. You should be able to contact some restaurants and should be able to meet some restaurateurs and discuss employment possibilities for when you arrive. Lastly, you can do a search for accomodations that will be available to you when you arrive. This two week trip to Maine will give you a flavor of Maine, the way it is, since you will be coming in the winter or at least deep fall and not the seductive spring of summer. We have a saying here that is appropriate here, and very, very true: "If you can't stand the winters, you don't deserve the summers". Believe it. (No, the winters here are NOT like they are in the west.)

Now, you may well be tempted to say that you can't afford to make a trip like this, and spend two weeks living in a motel, eating out and pouring gas in to a rental car while you 'explore' Maine.

Here is another hint. The only way to make the move to Maine with no contacts and no marketable skills is to have sufficient financial resources to support yourselves for at least a year to a year and a half with NO employment. Without that kind of financial support, "making the three thousand mile drive" will be much like gathering your wife and baby into your arms and jumping into a great big, deep and very, very dark hole.

Make the fact finding trip as soon as possible, and if you can't afford to do that, then the plain truth is that you can't afford to move to Maine now.

What you really need to do right now, is to find a teaching position for your wife where you are, then plan and save. I would also recommend that you go back to school and sharpen up your skills and acquire a trade of some sort that will enable you to come to a small economy with something to offer and something that gives you a leg up on the competition. Without your education and skills intact and the finances to support your adventuresome spirit, Maine will prove to be a very, very harsh place to live. Living at or below the poverty line in Maine is no joke.

[Maineah]

Acadianlion's words should the first thing read by anyone contemplating a move to Maine. It's November 5th and it's already snowing here. It will be a long winter!

[maineguy8888]

Please forgive Acadianliion if he seems a bit blunt...........you must understand though that your query is probably the thousandth similar one from folks from away to hit this forum.....
Acadianlion, your patience and store of energy is quite remarkable lol.........

[maineguy8888]

Portland has become such a "mecca" for folks from all over the country (especially those who could be considered liberal) that I have a suspicion that it will increasingly turn out to be a "let down" for more and more of its transplants.......somehow the dynamic seems to have spun out of control. It doesn't seem to make much sense anymore. Curious phenomenon.
But what do I know?? lol

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by maineguy8888

Portland has become such a "mecca" for folks from all over the country (especially those who could be considered liberal) that I have a suspicion that it will increasingly turn out to be a "let down" for more and more of its transplants.......somehow the dynamic seems to have spun out of control. It doesn't seem to make much sense anymore. Curious phenomenon.
But what do I know?? lol

People who have never lived here really can't fathom what it is like to live in an area where the weather is cold more than six months of the year. They complain about being hot and having to stay indoors for a couple of months but at least it's cool enough at night to go out and cook outside even when it's 70-80 at night and warm enough to do outdoor things in a sweater or light jacket for most of the rest of the year. Try cooking outdoors when it's 10 degrees out and see how long you enjoy that! We ran the heat until mid July this year and turned it back on in September. This was the shortest "non heating season" I can ever remember. Sure you can dress for ANY weather but it is a pain to have to put on three layers, boots, hats, mittens and coats to take a walk or go to the mailbox. It's snowing here today and 35 degrees. The wind goes right through you and is quite raw.
It's been cold for a while now and will only get worse from now on. Hopefully by next June it will be warm again.....maybe!
If people would stop reading DownEast magazine and looking at all of the perfect photos of Maine perhaps fewer would show up here looking for summer all year round.

[grimstuff]

If people would stop reading DownEast magazine and looking at all of the perfect photos of Maine perhaps fewer would show up here looking for summer all year round.

With all due respect, I don't think anyone thinks of moving to Maine expecting summer year round. What people would do well to consider, however, is just how much their daily life and routine would be impacted by the winter months. For me, it's helpful to hear of the everyday things like just how bundled up you have to be to go out to do errands, how easy it is to get cabin fever, what limitations there are, etc etc.

[InLimbo520]

CD Forum is proving to be a nice resource. Thanks AcadianLion for the thorough post. I've noticed it greatly helps to get opinions in addition to facts and figures we research on the web. Also, the cold weather: I lived in Omaha, NE for almost the last 13 years, and the winters there can be fairly harsh. I went back to visit last Christmas and experienced a couple days of a high temp 2, low - 10, winds at 30mph gusts. I am curious how Maine winters compare to Plains/Midwest winters. All i remember from back home is cold, bitter wind. We are currently in one of the most contrasted regions to be in compared to up north. Tucson, AZ. I find myself missing the snowy weather sometimes... oh well.

I am somewhat concerned about how the SO will adapt to winter. Portland, OR just doesnt get it like places back east. She says she's excited for it. It'd be a new experience for sure.

This time around we aren't interested in hastily picking up and leaving, or not researching things extensively.

If you folks can picture this... as i said before, we've been interested in the Boulder, CO area, though we almost see it as too congested for our taste. Hell, we were looking at Montana, but discovered the complete lack of economic success possibilities (for us).

We have been on the unemployed side of the market since January, and this economic situation has proven difficult to say the least. We didn't know about the pregnancy when we moved to Tucson, hence not checking out the school districts. Turns out TUSD is ranked pretty poorly nationwide and thats not what we want.

So we're having a somewhat tough time finding places that fit well. Considering:

we aren't interested in going back to Oregon, Omaha, Texas, etc (for various reasons)
we would like a region that has forests, mountains, coasts, rivers
good schools are a must

I grew up with farm runoff chemicals polluting the lakes and streams in the Midwest only to end up finding the pristine beauty of Oregon after so long. I just cant go back.

It's hard to picture a place where those factors all exist, and me having a good chance at getting ahead professionally. So when we look nationwide, it seems like everywhere is mostly screwed and we need to get creative. Out of crisis comes opportunity, right?

Found this link: Despite Jobless Rate, Labor Shortage Looming, Officials Say

So Maine has a small economy with a small population that is aging? We think it's an economy that we can fit into, and contribute to the community in the long run.

"We are surely touched by the recession, although much of the rest of the US enjoyed a kind of exuberence that never really got to Maine at all."

I apologize if i'm completely misinterpreting this, but, could that exuberance be attributed to the housing bubble/crisis? The extensive suburban big box brand name sprawl that took over so many areas? If thats along those lines then Maine sounds more like us. I can't stand Phoenix (for those of you who know what its like). We love communities that support small, local businesses. We don't shop at Walmart.

Also, i've never seen Downeast Magazine nor do we think its summer and warm most of the year. Just scratching the surface of a google image search turns up many winter photos. Deep snow.

I heard someone say land was cheap upstate. Any info? Thats way down the road, but brings me to this point: I saw a comment that "Maine is all looks and no substance" in reference to the forests and nature. Essentially claiming that the supposed 90% forested state land has been clear cut and replaced with new growth, simply leaving the trees lining the highways for aesthetics. Agree/disagree?

So wrapping things up, we consider ourselves a bit of a rare breed (young, but old fashioned) for people of our generation and are trying to find a place we would fit in. BTW I hope this thread isn't redundant, as many of these "Moving to..." threads have different but sometimes similar circumstances.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by InLimbo520

CD Forum is proving to be a nice resource. Thanks AcadianLion for the thorough post. I've noticed it greatly helps to get opinions in addition to facts and figures we research on the web. Also, the cold weather: I lived in Omaha, NE for almost the last 13 years, and the winters there can be fairly harsh. I went back to visit last Christmas and experienced a couple days of a high temp 2, low - 10, winds at 30mph gusts. I am curious how Maine winters compare to Plains/Midwest winters. All i remember from back home is cold, bitter wind. We are currently in one of the most contrasted regions to be in compared to up north. Tucson, AZ. I find myself missing the snowy weather sometimes... oh well.

I am somewhat concerned about how the SO will adapt to winter. Portland, OR just doesnt get it like places back east. She says she's excited for it. It'd be a new experience for sure.

This time around we aren't interested in hastily picking up and leaving, or not researching things extensively.

If you folks can picture this... as i said before, we've been interested in the Boulder, CO area, though we almost see it as too congested for our taste. Hell, we were looking at Montana, but discovered the complete lack of economic success possibilities (for us).

We have been on the unemployed side of the market since January, and this economic situation has proven difficult to say the least. We didn't know about the pregnancy when we moved to Tucson, hence not checking out the school districts. Turns out TUSD is ranked pretty poorly nationwide and thats not what we want.

So we're having a somewhat tough time finding places that fit well. Considering:

we aren't interested in going back to Oregon, Omaha, Texas, etc (for various reasons)
we would like a region that has forests, mountains, coasts, rivers
good schools are a must

I grew up with farm runoff chemicals polluting the lakes and streams in the Midwest only to end up finding the pristine beauty of Oregon after so long. I just cant go back.

It's hard to picture a place where those factors all exist, and me having a good chance at getting ahead professionally. So when we look nationwide, it seems like everywhere is mostly screwed and we need to get creative. Out of crisis comes opportunity, right?

Found this link: Despite Jobless Rate, Labor Shortage Looming, Officials Say

So Maine has a small economy with a small population that is aging? We think it's an economy that we can fit into, and contribute to the community in the long run.

"We are surely touched by the recession, although much of the rest of the US enjoyed a kind of exuberence that never really got to Maine at all."

I apologize if i'm completely misinterpreting this, but, could that exuberance be attributed to the housing bubble/crisis? The extensive suburban big box brand name sprawl that took over so many areas? If thats along those lines then Maine sounds more like us. I can't stand Phoenix (for those of you who know what its like). We love communities that support small, local businesses. We don't shop at Walmart.

Also, i've never seen Downeast Magazine nor do we think its summer and warm most of the year. Just scratching the surface of a google image search turns up many winter photos. Deep snow.

I heard someone say land was cheap upstate. Any info? Thats way down the road, but brings me to this point: I saw a comment that "Maine is all looks and no substance" in reference to the forests and nature. Essentially claiming that the supposed 90% forested state land has been clear cut and replaced with new growth, simply leaving the trees lining the highways for aesthetics. Agree/disagree?
So wrapping things up, we consider ourselves a bit of a rare breed (young, but old fashioned) for people of our generation and are trying to find a place we would fit in. BTW I hope this thread isn't redundant, as many of these "Moving to..." threads have different but sometimes similar circumstances.

Yes land is relatively cheap in the Northern part of Maine reason being there is little economy up there and it's very tough to eek out a living in the less populous places in Maine. People do it, it's just not easy. All of Maine has been cut at one time or another. That being said there are far more trees here than there were 100 years ago. Agriculture and family farms have been replaced in most of Maine with small communities. The old farms have been allowed to grow over back to forest land. 90% forest is probably accurate. There are trees everywhere. Try google earth and take a look at Maine from space. You'll get an idea of how forested the land is.