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Old 07-31-2010, 05:48 PM
 
474 posts, read 751,132 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by philwithbeard View Post
Maxredline:

You're an Internet troll.

Everyone else:
Please report Maxredline to the Moderator. Let the Moderators deal with Maxredline. The more complaints about Maxredline's violations against TOS, maybe the moderators will step in and close this thread.
Done.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
860 posts, read 1,845,918 times
Reputation: 636
Let me just say that I cannot find a single post in which Maxredline has violated this site's TOS. He has provided fact after verifiable fact and has only been attacked for it. And Phil's explicit-laden rant sent via direct message should provide a clear indication of who is really not firing all cylinders here.

We are entitled to our opinions and it is obvious that Red line and I are being attacked because we don't agree (or conform...pick your poison) with what Metro wants us to believe. It's debilitating to their case.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:01 PM
 
79 posts, read 67,398 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by philwithbeard View Post
Maxredline:

You're an Internet troll.

Everyone else:
Please report Maxredline to the Moderator. Let the Moderators deal with Maxredline. The more complaints about Maxredline's violations against TOS, maybe the moderators will step in and close this thread.
Well, Doctor, that's your opinion. Probably unlike you, I have actually moderated boards like this, and if anybody is in TOS violation, it would be you.

At some point, it would be very nice if you could manage to do one of two things:

Get on topic rather than wasting everyone's bandwidth with your pointless attacks.

or go away.

You seem to have an exaggerated sense of self-importance. If anybody dares to disagree with you, you call upon Moderators to close the thread.

As one user to me commented privately, many agree with me, but are afraid to step in.

I can see why.

Ever since I first dared to post here, you have called me a liar and have further denigrated me at every turn. You contribute nothing to civil dialog.

Even in your most recent note, you refer to me as a troll.

I have no idea as to why you are apparently so full of bile, nor do I have any interest in pursuing that topic.

I suggest that it would be best for you and your friends to stay on the topic of transit when you visit this site, difficult though that may be.
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Old 07-31-2010, 07:09 PM
 
79 posts, read 67,398 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosecitywanderer View Post
Let me just say that I cannot find a single post in which Maxredline has violated this site's TOS. He has provided fact after verifiable fact and has only been attacked for it. And Phil's explicit-laden rant sent via direct message should provide a clear indication of who is really not firing all cylinders here.

We are entitled to our opinions and it is obvious that Red line and I are being attacked because we don't agree (or conform...pick your poison) with what Metro wants us to believe. It's debilitating to their case.
I appreciate the vote of confidence, RCW. Not really sure what these folks find so "offensive" - other than the fact that trains are incredibly expensive and inflexible while buses are cheaper and much more flexible. Probably they just really like trains and really hate it when people come in and mention the obvious.
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Old 08-01-2010, 04:31 AM
 
157 posts, read 337,230 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxredline View Post
ST,

If Phil allowed people to express their views without calling them liars and resorting to other childish tactics, nobody would bother with him. In other words, you have it exactly backwards: he needs to lay off.
I thought he left the thread so I didn't address him. This is a selfish reason too. If this thread gets closed, another will open the next day and I'll have to type all this sh*t all over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
So was I and I agree with you. For a town that claims it is trying to get people onto public transportation and out of their cars, they are sure going about it strangely. Places to where I could go by bus before MAX are no longer served by those buses. Now I have to get to a light rail by taking another bus.

As far as the convenience and ease of getting around solely by public transportaion, for me it has been more difficult since the MAX was built. In fact I can remember when the first MAX was being built one of the advantages Tri-Met was touting was that it's coming would take more buses off the streets.

I couldn't see why that was a good thing then and I still don't see it now.
My point exactly. I think this has to come from the anti-car transplants that fawn all over light rail without realizing what it was like ten, twenty, or even thirty years ago. It was easy to step outside, walk to the nearest bus stop, and get to where you need to go. The buses worked for you.

Now you need to bend over backwards to somehow incorporate MAX into your trip when you didn't used to. Or worse, DRIVE to MAX to get to where you need to go. You need to work for MAX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanlover85 View Post
maxredline and phil, your petty girlish bickering has surpassed what should be a respectable, grown up debate. For the sake of everybody else, cut it out! Please! Anyways, as others have pointed out, light rail in any city is almost unfailingly a fiscal failure. But it is an invaluable service for a
city's residents. I wouldn't have moved to Portland if it didn't have such a developed light rail network, so I'm obviously a bit biased. Buses are nice, but are slower and have to share
the road with other vehicles subjecting them to traffic. As a result, they are much less reliable and are frequently running behind schedule. There is also a stigma attached to buses that light rail doesn't have. Trains feel "cooler" and less trashy than buses do for whatever reason. Trains also tend to be "greener" than buses. Also, visitors flying into any given city will be much more likely to take public transportation
to their destination if it is rail. Again, light rail just seems more reliable and less confusing than buses. Trains stop at every designated stop along the route, there is no need to pull a chord to signal the driver. Every stop is also announced clearly in both English and Spanish (please no comments on how they should only be in English because this is AMERICA and our official language is ENGLISH and anyone who steps on our soil should speak it! ) As far as bus lines being cut, I don't think MAX is entirely responsible. The last two cities I lived in (San Antonio and Salt Lake City) were also seeing a reduction in bus service due to the economy and high fuel prices.
If you think the buses are bad now, you should have seen them twenty years ago. All brown plastic inside and the seats were so uncomfortable and small windows. It was like riding in a port-o-potty.

There's no question that light rail is more attractive, hip, and comfortable than buses. The problem is Portland. Portland is simply not set up like a New York, London, or Hong Kong to make it effective. A select few people can make it work, but it's a small minority and the ridership numbers prove it. The vast majority need more buses and better roads. But Portland has taken on urban planning to include social engineering and it's gotten way out of hand.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Status: "Still holding on to flip flop weather!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley
4,135 posts, read 7,976,295 times
Reputation: 3293
The point of light rail seems to be getting people in, out and around the central city. Works great for that. Last I rode the light rail regularly (maybe 10 years ago), the engineering company I worked for purposely set up shop based on the light rail - business office downtown, corporate office in the Lloyd District, maintenance/vehicle shop out by Gateway. Worked great, and there was no carrying around 10 bus schedules like I had to do when I went to PSU for grad and post-grad work (is the express bus running yet? Have I missed the once-an-hour bus that will take me to the other bus line? Do I need to walk over to Burnside/6th to get the other bus?)

Over the last couple years, when I've been back in town as a tourist, riding the Max within a couple hours of 8am or 5pm means SRO.

There are a bunch of things that need to be fixed about Max and Tri-Met, but, as a tax-paying Oregonian who doesn't even live in the area, I view it as an investment in the future.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,657 posts, read 2,611,778 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxredline View Post
......if anybody is in TOS violation, it would be you.

Ever since I first dared to post here, you have called me a liar and have further denigrated me at every turn. You contribute nothing to civil dialog.....
Your very 1st post on this board was a specific and direct attack on me. A personal attack. I my time on this board I haven't been insulted and been the subject of such a direct and specific personal attack like in your first post in this thread. I see no reason why I should roll over and not attack you back.

You are vile troll, go back to your bridge.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Heights OH
13,457 posts, read 10,102,904 times
Reputation: 12873
Quote:
The point of light rail seems to be getting people in, out and around the central city. Works great for that. Last I rode the light rail regularly (maybe 10 years ago), the engineering company I worked for purposely set up shop based on the light rail - business office downtown, corporate office in the Lloyd District, maintenance/vehicle shop out by Gateway.
I agree it works great for situations like yours when you are using it for purposes of getting to work from point A to point B. But not so much if you want to go to points B, C and D. It appears to me that most people think of using public transportation for only one or two types of trips: work or the occasional special event downtown.

I take public transportation everywhere at all varying hours. I used to be able to get to wherever I wanted to go by bus more easily than I can today because the routes have been taken away. I always felt even before MAX that there should be more buses that went across town and had more frequent schedules.

I can remember when I could take the #14 all the way from the Hawthorne area to the LLoyd Center. That was great. And the #27 went from Johnson Creek all the way downtown through the Woodstock-Clinton neigborhoods. No more though. Tri-Met has always been in a constant state of changing and cutting back on bus routes.

I am not knocking trains per se; just the fact that Tri-Met can't seem to make up it's mind as to how to handle the transportation system. It put in MAX when it should have instead added more buses and bus routes to serve more people. For many of us who don't live near a MAX line and travel to many different destionations in any given week, MAX has not been any kind of improvment.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:43 PM
Status: "Still holding on to flip flop weather!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley
4,135 posts, read 7,976,295 times
Reputation: 3293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I am not knocking trains per se; just the fact that Tri-Met can't seem to make up it's mind as to how to handle the transportation system. It put in MAX when it should have instead added more buses and bus routes to serve more people. For many of us who don't live near a MAX line and travel to many different destionations in any given week, MAX has not been any kind of improvment.
But a large number of people DO go downtown, whether it's for work or events, and, as you say, it works great for that. Were I moving back to Portland (and I may, at least part-time) I'd be making sure I lived near light rail.

When Max first went in, Portland was in a period of tremendous growth. Looking forward at those growth numbers, light rail made a great deal of sense (and still makes sense for the future).

This is not to say that Max doesn't need improvements -
- a way of changing boarding to make sure that everyone has a ticket or pass.
- a bypass or express across downtown that doesn't stop every 3rd block.
- no more dubious lines like WES
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Heights OH
13,457 posts, read 10,102,904 times
Reputation: 12873
Quote:
But a large number of people DO go downtown, whether it's for work or events, and, as you say, it works great for that. Were I moving back to Portland (and I may, at least part-time) I'd be making sure I lived near light rail.
Near what area and near what light rail would you want to move? You would really be restricting your choice of neighborhoods. Not everyone can or wants to live near a light rail. And keep in mind that they would probably have to live near a busline that goes to a MAX station. Mostly the denser areas like the Pearl or NW Portland would have nice places near the MAX stations.

I think one of the goals of establishing light rail in the beginning was to eliminate cars from downtown hence the park-and-rides but today the downtown streets are choked with cars and new parking garages are being built whereever possible.

Your suggestions for improvments for MAX are good but I still have to favor inceased bus routes and frequency of the runs over building more light rails. And I believe Tri-Met is still of the mentality that light rail can replace buses. I simply want to see more public transportation within the city that can get all around the city and not less.

Having seen and used public transportation both before and after light rail I can't help but observing that although many can use light rail now, many more could use buses before. There needs to be some sort of balance where Tri-Met doesn't have to rob Peter (bus system) to pay Paul (light rail).
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