Portland needs to do something about unlawful panhandlers (sales, 2014)

[Yankeemama]

Yes, Deezus, Portland proper, reminds me of the homeless situation in S.F., almost identical in some ways. I DO sympathize with Native Portlanders because it's hard to wake up to a city ( it seems like that anyway) which has a higher percentage of homeless than other cities of comparable size. I actually am so used to the homeless issue because of growing up in S.F. but I never get used to the idea that people are suffering and need help. We used to joke in S.F. In the 80's and 90's, that the "street kids" hanging in the Haight, asking for change, were really rich kids from Marin County. I know that the kids on the street in groups with the dogs probably are run aways from abusive homes. I recently read an article about the homeless youth that inhabit West Coast cities. I noticed that in Seattle as well as PDX and S.F. I didn't notice the same problem in L.A. but that town is so spread out and doesn't really have a city center like the other cities so maybe the homeless are "out of sight" like in NYC. Don't think I have seen too many homeless in Boston, either. Honolulu has a visible homeless problem and not enough shelters. Many displaced local families on the beach in tents on Oahu. You still see a lot of homeless near the touristy areas, though.

[Leisesturm]

What about those billionaires though...

[TDNY]

Originally Posted by PDXBound

You misread my quote.... the PP was saying we needed to do more to treat the mentally ill and that would in turn help keep them off the streets. Yes there are some that chose to be homeless, and some that are so socially/mentally dysfunctional they can't hold a job. If there were more options to treat the mentally ill homeless, it would keep them off the streets. Unfortunately, the homeless don't pay taxes so why would tax payers want to invest in such programs? The average American sees no benefit in throwing money into a program they do not benefit from, yet they like to complain about the homeless near their favorite shops. What to do??

I think your assuming that most of the homeless people in Portland are mentally ill, and that if they were just treated than the "problem" would go away. I seriously doubt that most homeless people anywhere are mentally ill. Some of them, surely, but in my opinion most of the young homeless people that I've seen in Portland and SF are running away from something, and at some point have become dependent on drugs. They come to Portland, SF, and Seattle because those places are liberal and have good drug scenes.

Many of them likely wouldn't be homeless if they could get a job and a place to live. The first step would be to help the economy, which does NOT include taxing people and businesses so much that they want to leave or never come or decide to expand elsewhere, such as someone suggested. The second step is to help the transition from unemployable and homeless to employed and with a home.

I plan on moving to Portland next year. I have done well for myself and plan on investing some of my money in Portland. The fact that Oregon has the highest income taxes in the country gave me serious pause. If I didn't live in NY, which has the highest total tax (not income) of any state, it probably would have had a bigger impact on my decision. Many people and businesses will make the decision to not move to Oregon because of the tax and general anti-business climate.

So, I see here that a lot of people complain and are worried about the lack of jobs in Oregon, but then they want to tax the crap out of everyone (except themselves of course).

NY has really high taxes, but to some extent can get away with it because of inertia and because there is such a concentration of people that are really good at certain things, in addition to the fact that you can make a boatload of money there. There are a lot of businesses that "have" to be there, although the politicians are doing their best to drive people away. Oregon doesn't really have the same dynamic, so the state and cities need to be attractive places to do business or they won't have any.

Just to let you know, I'm not some right winger either, I'm a Democrat but I've watched my own state get ruined by the attitude that all people who make money should have as much as possible of it confiscated by the state and local governments and given to public employees, or wasted in huge, expensive projects that never get finished , or just flushed down the toilet. That's a big reason I'm leaving NY. I really like Portland, and I hope to not see the same thing happen there, at least not to the same extent.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. I feel better now.

[PDXBound]

Originally Posted by TDNY

I think your assuming that most of the homeless people in Portland are mentally ill, and that if they were just treated than the "problem" would go away. I seriously doubt that most homeless people anywhere are mentally ill. Some of them, surely, but in my opinion most of the young homeless people that I've seen in Portland and SF are running away from something, and at some point have become dependent on drugs. They come to Portland, SF, and Seattle because those places are liberal and have good drug scenes.

Many of them likely wouldn't be homeless if they could get a job and a place to live. The first step would be to help the economy, which does NOT include taxing people and businesses so much that they want to leave or never come or decide to expand elsewhere, such as someone suggested. The second step is to help the transition from unemployable and homeless to employed and with a home.

I plan on moving to Portland next year. I have done well for myself and plan on investing some of my money in Portland. The fact that Oregon has the highest income taxes in the country gave me serious pause. If I didn't live in NY, which has the highest total tax (not income) of any state, it probably would have had a bigger impact on my decision. Many people and businesses will make the decision to not move to Oregon because of the tax and general anti-business climate.

So, I see here that a lot of people complain and are worried about the lack of jobs in Oregon, but then they want to tax the crap out of everyone (except themselves of course).

NY has really high taxes, but to some extent can get away with it because of inertia and because there is such a concentration of people that are really good at certain things, in addition to the fact that you can make a boatload of money there. There are a lot of businesses that "have" to be there, although the politicians are doing their best to drive people away. Oregon doesn't really have the same dynamic, so the state and cities need to be attractive places to do business or they won't have any.

Just to let you know, I'm not some right winger either, I'm a Democrat but I've watched my own state get ruined by the attitude that all people who make money should have as much as possible of it confiscated by the state and local governments and given to public employees, or wasted in huge, expensive projects that never get finished , or just flushed down the toilet. That's a big reason I'm leaving NY. I really like Portland, and I hope to not see the same thing happen there, at least not to the same extent.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. I feel better now.

I guess you would be shocked to find out how many homeless REALLY are mentally ill.

Homelessness - Provision of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services

This study says roughly 66% are mentally ill. If we could treat the mental illness and make these people functional in society, that would take up to (in a perfect world) 66% of homeless people off the streets. That is a staggering figure in my mind. In fact, this number could be higher because often the drug addicts and alcoholics are seen as just that, abusers, but they are just treating an underlying mental illness.

My brother is mentally ill, and I have spoken to the County of Mental health in my town ad nauseam about what we can do for my brother. The answer is always the same.... there's very little we can do because there just isn't financial resources for treatment in the public sector. She quoted me at the time that approx 75% of the homeless population suffers from some form of mental illness. So yes, it is possible to get the homeless off the street in a more productive way than shipping them off sight unseen.

[TDNY]

This is what I read in your link:

"Thirty-nine percent report some form of mental health problem, and 20 to 25 percent meet criteria for serious mental illnesses. "



Besides the fact that there is no way of knowing the actual percentage, the person you talked to has a vested interest in fluffing up those numbers. It also depends on what the definition of "mentally ill" is. A lot of people have some sort of thing that they may be getting treatment from a psychiatrist for. My wife has ADD, is she mentally ill? She isn't homeless. I have no idea of the specifics of your brother's case but I'm not sure that your experience can be amplified to include the entire homeless population.

I never advocated shipping anyone anywhere.

[PDXBound]

• Thirty-eight percent report alcohol use problems.
• Twenty-six percent report other drug use problems.
• Thirty-nine percent report some form of mental health problem, and 20 to 25 percent meet criteria for serious mental illnesses.
• Sixty-six percent report substance use and/or mental health problems.

[PDXBound]

I would say all of the 66% that report substance abuse have some form of mental illness diagnosed or not.

[TDNY]

You can say anything you want but it doesn't make it true.

Besides , that "data" is all over the place. The fact that they have two contradictory statements next to each other doesn't help it seem trustworthy.

I can say "66 % of Americans are either obese or bald" but that doesn't really mean anything does it?

[PDXBound]

I don't need to argue with you. I have first hand knowledge with trying to keep someone off the streets that is mentally ill. If you don't know what form of mental illness can render you socially inept, than there is no point in even discussing the matter with you. Comparing your wife to someone with undeniable paranoid psychosis is offensive. Maybe you should do a little research yourself, talk to someone in your County mental health dept, volunteer at a homeless shelter, etc. I have no reason to "fluff" my case, that's simply ridiculous. Good luck in with your move to Portland.

[TDNY]

Here you go, this may be one of the reasons that NYC has less homeless now:

We force really mentally ill people to take medication by court order. As you may know, roughly half of those with serious mental illness don't take the medication they are prescribed. This isn't because they can't get it, it's because they don't want to. It sounds pretty creepy that the state forces people to be medicated , but apparently it's effective, according to the article.

DJ Jaffe: Meds can Reduce Homelessness but the Homeless (and Advocates) Don't Get It.