Thanks for the visit Portland! - some thoughts from a DC resident (Beaverton: mortgage, purchase)

[jrkliny]

Oregon charges gasoline taxes of $0.43 and diesel taxes of $0.49/gallon. That is a lot of money. Cyclists pay $0. Please keep cyclists off the highways. It is just not safe. Please no skateboards, no roller blades, no bicycles. If a "bicycle infrastruture" is important, build it, but don't use the highways as a substitute.

[BoomBoxing]

Again, bikes have virtually no effect on the roads they are on, therefore shouldn't have to pay to use them. You wouldn't have to pay such high gasoline taxes if automobile use didn't destroy roads that cost a fortune to keep in decent enough shape.

Besides, in most places "bicycle infrastructure" is painted stripes on the side of the road. It is dirt cheap and a miniscule part of any municipal government's budget. Although I do assume Portland pays more since it is one of the few cities that actively seeks to accommodate non-motorists.

I don't have exact figures, at least not for Oregon, but whenever I hear some angry anti-cyclist decry how cyclists need to pony up some dough to use the road I just have to laugh. Maybe we should start charging pedestrians for using the sidewalk too?

[jrkliny]

Bikes DO have an effect on the roads they are on. They take up space and make it unsafe for both motorists and cyclists. Cyclists should not be asked to "pony up some dough to use the road." They should not be on the roads at all. If it is cheap and easy to build and maintain bicycle lanes, then build them separate from the roads. Putting a narrow strip on the side of the road is not a safe alternative. Driving on the main roadway is worse.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by BoomBoxing

^That is a ridiculous argument. Are you being serious? Gasoline taxes pays for road upkeep and roads need upkeep because of cars and trucks that weigh a ton+. It is a progressive tax so that the more gasoline you buy, the more you drive = the more you pay.

Bikes have close to zero effect on the road infrastructure so why should they pay? Because they inconvenience you? If bikes did pay their fair share of taxes for their usage of the road, based on wear and tear AND adding bike infrastructure it would be a ridiculously miniscule amount.

And I do not know about Oregon, but many states have income taxes that goes to fund their state DOT. That amount is the same whether you are a bicyclist or someone who drives 100 miles a day. The money state DOT's spend on bicycle infrastructure compared to motorist-only infratructure (IE: highways) is very disportionate. In other words those of us who don't drive or don't drive very much subsidize those who do. You're welcome!

You're USING the road. You have your own special lanes on the road. Therefore, you should be required to help PAY for the road. See, it's this sense of entitlement that always grates on me. You want all the amenities, but you don't want to have to actuially pay for them. That falls to someone else.

Again, if you don't want to pay for your usage of the road, then perhaps you should stick to riding around on dirt trails.

[BoomBoxing]

If you're going to make it personal, I own a car and I do drive so I DO pay for the roads. Don't bother throwing ridiculous right wing buzz phrases like "sense of entitlement" when you don't know me.

Here in St. Louis we have a regional tax that is 1/3 of a cent that funds bike lanes, bike trails, hiking trails, and other outdoor recreational venues. This is a voter approved tax. So I'll excuse you accusing me of not paying or wanting to pay for anything since I don't expect you to be familiar with how these things are funded where I live. Perhaps Portland area has something similar.

Why do you think municipal governments from Portland to NYC to St. Louis want to promote bicycling so much? Because it's cheap, saves them money, and promotes a healthier and more active society. I'm sure some municipal governments do subsidize improvements to bike infrastructure to help achieve these goals, but as I've shown you in my local area it is almost all sales tax funded and voter approved.

[Xanathos]

Aaaaaaand, we're done. The moment you start throwing out nonsense like "you're throwing ridiculous right wing buzz phrases" when someone correctly points out that you're acting offended at the very notion of having to pay for special lanes on public roads for your bike is the moment you are no longer worth talking to. You'll fit right in with the other extremists.

[philwithbeard]

Originally Posted by BoomBoxing

Again, bikes have virtually no effect on the roads they are on, therefore shouldn't have to pay to use them. You wouldn't have to pay such high gasoline taxes if automobile use didn't destroy roads that cost a fortune to keep in decent enough shape.

Besides, in most places "bicycle infrastructure" is painted stripes on the side of the road. It is dirt cheap and a miniscule part of any municipal government's budget. Although I do assume Portland pays more since it is one of the few cities that actively seeks to accommodate non-motorists.

I don't have exact figures, at least not for Oregon, but whenever I hear some angry anti-cyclist decry how cyclists need to pony up some dough to use the road I just have to laugh. Maybe we should start charging pedestrians for using the sidewalk too?

Hi, BoomBoxing:

Just to let you know that in Portland, during the summer and fall, we have **thousands** of people cycling all around the core areas of Portland. Not only do we have the painted stripes on normal roadways, but we have dedicated bike paths and protected bike lanes on bridges over our rivers.

Our winters have very little snow, but long stretches of cloudy overcast skies and lots of rain and drizzle; the Pacific Northwest is known for its rainy winter season. Not so much bike riding during the rainy season.

My point, (as another poster pointed out...) there are 2.4 million people who live in the Portland area, and only a double handful who post on this board. When it comes to actual votes and political decisions, the City of Portland and Multnomah county is very strongly in favor of the bicyclist and mass transit to the expense and policy disfavor of the single occupied car during rush hour. This is local politics, and local issues.

This intense bicycle usage adds to the city of Portland's unique flavor, vibe, and culture. No mater what anyone on this board writes, bicycle usage in Portland will continue and may even grow in popularity. Our Mayor has claimed on a major Cable News channel that Portland's per capita gasoline and diesel fuel usage is a bit more than 20% less than the national average; most of us in the City of Portland would like to see that grow (drop?) to 25% less than the national average. (OTH, there are technical reasons, IMHO, that anything like more that 30% below would not be good at this very specific time.)

I hope I have correctly provided an overview of our local, very local, issues. Just take my word for it, there is a minority who would prefer Portland be just like every other large city with a failed, blighted, inner city with a Car-Is-King bland fast-food-chain suburbia surrounding "The City" with urban sprawl unfettered and unlimited.

And isn't it nice that one medium sized city is experimenting with a very good Mass Transit system and cyclist paths, trails, and street markings so we aren't just like every other city?

One last point, and I have no proof or evidence of this either, but IMO, if you have ever seen a young male car driver who drives reckless, and weaves in and out of traffic, demanding everyone yield to his faster driving.... well put that same personality on a bicycle, and guess what....
you have bicyclist who weaves in and out of traffic, demands everyone yield to him, and in general rides his bicycle in a reckless manner. I'm not even going to mention about foul-mouthed female car drivers who curse constantly at other motorist, and their counterpart personalities on bicycles... maybe even double

[philwithbeard]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

Aaaaaaand, we're done. The moment you start throwing out nonsense like "you're throwing ridiculous right wing buzz phrases" when someone correctly points out that you're acting offended at the very notion of having to pay for special lanes on public roads for your bike is the moment you are no longer worth talking to. You'll fit right in with the other extremists.

Yes, we are done.

You moved away from Portland. You don't have a vote, or a legitimate voice, in Portland's local political decisions anymore. Our local politician's actions are no longer a concern of yours.

The State of Oregon, County of Multnomah, and the City of Portland have legislated the sharing of the roads. and the process and laws for the sharing the roads with cars, trucks, bicyclist, and others. That ain't going to change.

[BoomBoxing]

Thanks Phil, I am happy that Portland gets it. I will definetly make it out there sometime in the next year to check it out.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

Yes, we are done.

You moved away from Portland. You don't have a vote, or a legitimate voice, in Portland's local political decisions anymore. Our local politician's actions are no longer a concern of yours.

The State of Oregon, County of Multnomah, and the City of Portland have legislated the sharing of the roads. and the process and laws for the sharing the roads with cars, trucks, bicyclist, and others. That ain't going to change.

And that would be where you're wrong. Why? Because I own 6 houses in Oregon (2 in Bend, 1 in Lake Oswego, 1 in West Linn, 1 in Beaverton, and 1 in Portland itself). Property taxes, you see. And since that's where I spent all of 2010 up until a few weeks ago, I'm registered as a voter there for this year. Granted, votes have already been sent in for the various measures thanks to the mail-in philosophy of the state, but the point remains. And, sad as it is to me, I'll have to find myself down there now and again for business purposes, which means I'll be occasionally subjected to yet more of you bicyclists with your red light running and improper turning and white lining etc. and arrogant belief that you somehow own 80% of the road etc. etc., all while demanding that I pay for your road use any time I have to fill up.