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This is an American problem, experienced in every state in the union. You are not convincing me. Nor are you likely to convince AAA to recind their latest #1 ranking to Portland drivers. Sorry you have a bad time with Portland drivers and cyclists. The real problem I am afraid, is you. When a majority of other people posit a different outcome to a situation the wise person see's it as a teaching moment. I will note this: a lot of PDX drivers must be real leadfoots for the few slowpokes to stand out as much as they do. Which is it? Is we or is we ain't able to operate cars up here?
H
I really couldn't care less what AAA rates the city. Driving in Portland was more of a headache for me than most other cities I've lived in, and I've been in a lot of them.
Furthermore, I'm far from the only one who has a problem with the cyclists. I don't know too many people that DON'T have a problem with them - except the ones I know who are cyclists themselves.
...Furthermore, I'm far from the only one who has a problem with the cyclists. I don't know too many people that DON'T have a problem with them - except the ones I know who are cyclists themselves.
If one elects, or chooses, to live in Portland.....sharing the road with bicyclist, and drivers in Portland, is part of the package of living in Portland.
As you have done, move away from Portland if you don't accept the sharing the roads with cyclists, Portland drivers, TriMet Buses. and the large number of pedestrians. It really is a package deal. And it does work out just fine that those who want to live in Portland verses those who would rather live elsewhere.
I cannot ride a bicycle, and I accept without a problem the full package deal of drivers, cyclist, buses, and pedestrians. I moved to Portland fully aware of the package deal.
Since you lived in other cities, you must have known before moving to PDX the huge difference in road sharing and driving / road usage culture, didn't you? It isn't a secret about our road usage culture in Portland.
There's a difference between 'sharing the road' and the bicyclist culture there which thinks they 'own' the road. I'd have less of a problem with them if they weren't always running red lights, riding on the white line even though they've got a 10 foot wide bike lane of their own (which those of us in cars pay for - another gripe of mine), cutting off traffic, and in general being bad roadmates. Sorry, but the cyclist mentality and culture in PDX is not a good one. Before Oregon, I lived in Austin - another bike friendly location. Didn't have anywhere near the problems down there I did in Portland, however. Why? Because down there, bike laws were enforced, and the cyclists weren't so arrogant as to think that on a 4 lane road, they owned 3 lanes of traffic.
Left lane hogging while incredibly annoying is not incredibly dangerous… …IF as you say the left lane hog is the only idiot going anywhere near the speed limit it should be no problem to pass him on the right. What, that's against the law? Just asking...
While it’s not technically against the law, it fly’s in the face of what the Oregon State Police recommends and as a general rule they tend to know what they’re talking about.
What is it about so many Oregonians who just can't seem to grasp such a simple concept; SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
…AAA and a number of other organizations rank Oregon drivers #1 consistently. You disagree, take it up with them…
I give this the same credence I gave the ranking of Portland as dead last as America’s ‘manliest’ cities…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
…There are a LOT of drivers on Oregon's (Portland's) roads that are from somewhere else...
Very true and everyone I talk to make the same complaint about Oregonian drivers!
I think I can go this far out on a limb and say that absolutely, when a Portland driver strays across the sacrosanct double yellow, it is because he is passing a cyclist on his side of the road. If it were drunkenness or simple lack of skill you wouldn't be here to gripe about it because s/he wouldn't have stopped at one wheel over the line. Just saying. As a cyclist I appreciate the gesture but I often worry about it when there is oncoming traffic. I am usually out on the shoulder anyway and even on those occasions when I am in the lane because there is no shoulder and a car does not move over there is room to pass. Not a lot but there is room. For me it is hard to imagine being out in the middle of nowhere, coming up behind a slowpoke and not passing him. I've never concerned myself with why another person is traveling at the speed they are traveling as long as it isn't two such people deliberately blocking both lanes to be cute. If it is a single lane then the speed limit is likely less than 55mph and the road, less than straight. I honestly cannot say that in rural New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey or Michigan... places I know about driving in, that one won't encounter a slowpoke on such a road. Portland does not have the market cornered on single lane slowpokes. That is why there are passing lanes every ___ miles. I couldn't help but notice that those who have left Portland for other places have been strangely silent on the road conduct in their new home states. I mean, its only right if you are going to lay into Portland drivers for their lack of driving acumen to say where and how it is being done better?
While it’s not technically against the law, it fly’s in the face of what the Oregon State Police recommends and as a general rule they tend to know what they’re talking about.
What is it about so many Oregonians who just can't seem to grasp such a simple concept; SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT!
Since we are being technical "it fly's in the face of what..." should be "it flies in the face of.." now you have a reason to hate me. Just kidding. But seriously, it's not just Oregon's police but law enforcement the world over recommends that slower traffic keep right. You cannot tell me that you have driven in other states and not seen pickup trucks cruising in the left lane. It is an international pet peeve that American drivers of pickup trucks do not yield to faster traffic in the passing lane.
There's a difference between 'sharing the road' and the bicyclist culture there which thinks they 'own' the road. I'd have less of a problem with them if they weren't always running red lights, riding on the white line even though they've got a 10 foot wide bike lane of their own (which those of us in cars pay for - another gripe of mine), cutting off traffic, and in general being bad roadmates. Sorry, but the cyclist mentality and culture in PDX is not a good one. Before Oregon, I lived in Austin - another bike friendly location. Didn't have anywhere near the problems down there I did in Portland, however. Why? Because down there, bike laws were enforced, and the cyclists weren't so arrogant as to think that on a 4 lane road, they owned 3 lanes of traffic.
My thanks to Dr. Phil for drawing you out so we finally get to the crux of the biscuit as it were. As a former motorist, now cyclist, I think I can speak knowledgeably (love that Firefox spell check) to both sides of the issue. First, there are no "bike friendly" cities in the U.S. there are bike aware ones, and some are more bike aware than others. I can tell you are one of those drivers who thinks that in order to make a left turn, a cyclist should first cross street A, with the light. Wait for it to time out and then cross street B, with the light. The sight of a cyclist moving towards the left lane to set up for a left turn boils your blood. It shouldn't. A bicycle is a vehicle and if it were a motorcycle or a car doing the same thing you wouldn't be offended. In any other state, except Oregon my left hand out signaling a left turn would mean nothing! In many other cities a car signaling left means "speed up and pass the sap". Would you drive past a car signaling left? Probably not, that's not how we do in PDX, but if you did, and got sideswiped it would be a matter for the courts and not the coroner, right. On a bicycle you turn left at the will and pleasure of car drivers.
I've never been there but I am told that in Amsterdam, Netherlands many of the bike lanes run left of the car traffic to facilitate left turns. When, however, a cyclist wants to turn right, they simply do it. They don't look, signal and/or wait for acquiesce that may or may not happen, they just turn. Woe be unto the driver that hits a cyclist for any reason. A really funny thing happens when you simply cannot do a thing or you will suffer the consequences in most parts of the world. You don't. In America, kill a cyclist, say you're sorry and get on with life. In Europe you never drive again. Cyclists and pedestrians do own the road and it is their rights that are enforced in many places. Motorists suck it up and deal. Why? Because in nearly every other part of the world besides America, Pedestrians and cyclists are by far the majority of those out and about on the streets and roads of the cities. After living in Oregon for two years back in 2004 I returned to NYC. I hadn't realized how totally car centric even a place like NYC is. Pedestrians are run down and killed to the tune of ?0,000 a year because, at intersections motorists just rumble through without yielding. "I had the green light!!!"... Stop signs mean "roll on through and check for oncoming cars, proceed if clear". The exact same behavior from cyclists makes car drivers nuts because in PDX cars cannot do that with impunity.
I am sorry that you cannot see the difference in potential to do major bodily harm between a 6,000lb SUV and a 35lb bicycle with a 200lb rider. Do cyclists run red lights? Not so much as is claimed by motorists. Do cyclists run stop signs? Yes, but so do cars. Most drivers blow the stop sign and stop at the curb only because they are concerned for their car. The stakes are much higher for car drivers colliding so they are much more cautious at intersections, with good reason. Bikes, not so much. Of course it p*ss*s you off to see a bicyclist "getting away" with something that you are not allowed to do. Sour grapes is the heart and soul of the intractable divide between motorists and cyclists. I'm hanged if I'm going to stand around in the freezing cold for half a minute when there is absolutely no cross traffic in sight. I get that cars can't do that with impunity but as a consolation you get to do your waiting, seated. With music, or talk, or sports playing. With heat even, or A/C your choice whatever the season.
Standing around in the road is not the safest position even if it is the correct one under the law. More than a few cyclists and motorcyclists have been killed when a motorist busy (distracted) anticipating the light slammed into them (standing there). They weren't even seen. So much for rules. I was once at a red light that was about to turn green. I had stopped for it of course, this was in Salem. I was just about to move off and BLAM!!. Some kid driving one of those tuned Honda's hit me at what onlookers say must have been 50mph. I was driving, not riding... He pulverized the back end of my Cavalier. It was a write off. Being that there was no bike lane, had I been on a bicycle I would have been only a little further to the right than I was. So much for 'rules'. The kids in the 'hood have a saying: "don't be a playa hater". Translation: rather than become annoyed at someone else "getting away" with something "live and let live". Unless they hurt you, of course. That's not cool, but somehow I suspect that you have never really had to drive any differently because of cyclists. I shouldn't really say that because, clearly, some of you drivers appear to operate in a different reality from mine. In my reality I do not see bicycles charging headlong into intersections with cross traffic forced to lock their tires to avoid a wreck. I can also tell you that the cyclists in NYC, Chi-town, Philly and other cities as dense as downtown Portland ride exactly the way they do in PDX. The drivers on the East Coast do not, as a rule, spend much time talking about the behavior of cyclists! Drivers in Portland honk their horns everytime they see a bicycle do something they don't like. It's so wussy. When you drive with your high beams on in town at night or blast through stale yellow lights or turn right on walk signals and cut-off peds... what... consider it payback when a cyclist flaunts the law. Or better yet, don't even pay it the slightest notice..
Bike lanes in America are 29", sometimes 32" wide. That is a lot less than the 120" you perceive them to be. To say you are biased against bicycles is putting it mildly. If you could only drive on 1/4 of the roads in your state and even on the 25% of roads that you were allowed to ride, erm, drive on, you could not safely make left turns because you would be rammed from behind by semi-trucks who felt their right to play through trumped your desire to turn at this particular intersection. Ok, imagine all that and then imagine that your city wants you to pay to use these roads...
Ok, that was my rant. Not very well edited I am afraid. Just heartfelt.
^That is a ridiculous argument. Are you being serious? Gasoline taxes pays for road upkeep and roads need upkeep because of cars and trucks that weigh a ton+. It is a progressive tax so that the more gasoline you buy, the more you drive = the more you pay.
Bikes have close to zero effect on the road infrastructure so why should they pay? Because they inconvenience you? If bikes did pay their fair share of taxes for their usage of the road, based on wear and tear AND adding bike infrastructure it would be a ridiculously miniscule amount.
And I do not know about Oregon, but many states have income taxes that goes to fund their state DOT. That amount is the same whether you are a bicyclist or someone who drives 100 miles a day. The money state DOT's spend on bicycle infrastructure compared to motorist-only infratructure (IE: highways) is very disportionate. In other words those of us who don't drive or don't drive very much subsidize those who do. You're welcome!
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) to both sides of the issue. First, there are no "bike friendly" cities in the U.S. there are bike aware ones, and some are more bike aware than others. I can tell you are one of those drivers who thinks that in order to make a left turn, a cyclist should first cross street A, with the light. Wait for it to time out and then cross street B, with the light. The sight of a cyclist moving towards the left lane to set up for a left turn boils your blood. It shouldn't. A bicycle is a vehicle and if it were a motorcycle or a car doing the same thing you wouldn't be offended. In any other state, except Oregon my left hand out signaling a left turn would mean nothing! In many other cities a car signaling left means "speed up and pass the sap". Would you drive past a car signaling left? Probably not, that's not how we do in PDX, but if you did, and got sideswiped it would be a matter for the courts and not the coroner, right. On a bicycle you turn left at the will and pleasure of car drivers. 
