Tri-Met Long Term Transit plans and my proposals -- 2040 plan

[philwithbeard]

The Red and Blue line go through a tunnel between Downtown and Sunset Transit center. The Washington Park stop is several hundred feet underground with a fast elevator ride up to the Portland Zoo. That is the high ridge just to the west of downtown. Cost justified by avoiding up and over the ridge costs.

But most of downtown and east to Mt. Hood (our active volcano) has mostly bad soil for tunnels, IMO. Loose soil is very expensive to dig a large diameter tunnel. I seem to recall from somewhere that Portland's soil is 10,000,000 years of accumulated dust, flooding sediment, and volcanic ash. There is no money-wise comparison between buses and building a sub-way tunnel underground. None. Buses and surface running streetcars, and light rail are the clear choice for the taxpayers. Not saying never.......

[Minervah]

Get rid of parking lots? People would revolt! I suppose they could use the spaces under the bridges for parking lots that are not being used now and have shuttle service over the bridges to downtown but there is probably a reason why that hasn't been done. Or maybe it has, I haven't looked lately.

Anyhoo, I am talking out of turn because I don't drive but I have worked with people who swore they would give up driving their cars downtown to work only when someone pried their car keys out of their cold, dead hands.

[UrbanAdventurer]

underground train tunnels would have been better in some parts such as downtown, but it probably did have a lot to do with cost effectiveness and the natural environment (rock vs. loose soil).

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

The Red and Blue line go through a tunnel between Downtown and Sunset Transit center. The Washington Park stop is several hundred feet underground with a fast elevator ride up to the Portland Zoo. That is the high ridge just to the west of downtown. Cost justified by avoiding up and over the ridge costs.

But most of downtown and east to Mt. Hood (our active volcano) has mostly bad soil for tunnels, IMO. Loose soil is very expensive to dig a large diameter tunnel. I seem to recall from somewhere that Portland's soil is 10,000,000 years of accumulated dust, flooding sediment, and volcanic ash. There is no money-wise comparison between buses and building a sub-way tunnel underground. None. Buses and surface running streetcars, and light rail are the clear choice for the taxpayers. Not saying never.......

But then Tokyo and Seattle wouldn't have tunnels through there weak soil , neither would Vancouver. Technologies have fixed weak soils tunneling issues...

[philwithbeard]

Well, yes, of course they can, and maybe in a generation or two TriMet will...
It is just a mater of cost, and taxpayer's willingness to be stuck with the added taxes....

BTW: a side note... Just south of Portland (Multnomah County) is a community in Clackamas county Lake Oswego, which is regarded as one of Portland's more affluent communities. Quite a few senior ranking doctors who teach and practice medicine up on what we locally call "Pill Hill", a teaching (and medical research) hospital, OHSU, and a large VA hospital sit on top of a 700 ft high ridge. The point is the parking up on top of the 'hill' is limited and the policy is most of the parking goes to patients and their visitors.

Hang with me, I will tie this all together in a moment.

To help get people up on top of the Hill, TriMet runs a High Wire aerial Tram from the Willamette river (AKA South Water Front area) up to the Medical complexes.
Google YouTube: Portland Aerial Tram going up
The new Portland Street car line stops right at the bottom of the Tram.

Already existing today is an old trolley line running from the about less than Two blocks from the Street car in the South Water Front area that runs to downtown Lake Oswego. This ancient trolley line is The Willamette Shore Trolley line, and it has been running on weekends (until last summer 2010) as an inexpensive day excursion from Portland to Lake Oswego and back. Tracks, and right of way lready to go.
Willamette Shore Trolley Lake Oswego Oregon

You can look at the trip by YouTube: Riding the Willamette Shore Trolley
It is a long video, but keep an eye out for the now very rare "Wig-Wag" traffic warning signals. One of the last such working rail traffic signals in USA on real roads and rail lines.

So someone got the big idea, that just how cheap would it be to lay new tracks, upgrade the antique Wig-Wags to modern traffic signals and run Portland's new street cars (from a local factory here in Portland) from downtown Lake Oswego to the tram on weekdays, and continue to let the tourist trolley run on the weekends. Keep in mind the parking problem up on Pill Hill is usually 10:00am till 8:00pm (visitor Hours.)

In addition, the riders could transfer from Willamette shore Trolley line to the Streetcar at the tram stop, and that would offer access to other hospitals and medical facilities by light rail systems through out the inner core of Portland also.

However, the anti-mass transit people are out in force to halt this upgrade of the old W.S.Trolley with surprisingly intense fervor. People in L.O. want no part of a modern street car running to downtown Lake Oswego, and are claiming the most ludicrous, outlandish outcome if this upgraded street car ever came to L.O. In fact they may even want to halt the weekend family excursion of the ancient trolley in an effort to block the modernization and upgrade.

So even this simple, ultra-cost effective, idea is bucking the full anti-mass transit sediment from the political powers in Clackamas County. (you do understand the Clackamas county is as close to a Republican strong hold as we have in this citadel bastion of voting the Liberal Democratic Party line, known as the Portland area, don't you?)

Now, about that very expensive underground light rail, the GOP, anti-tax Tea Party, and last November 2010 election results .....

Phil

[hamellr]

I personally think that a line from Portland to Salem would be a good idea. I know that when I travel to Salem for business reasons, it'd be worth it to me. I know quite a few people who currently commute on a daily basis who'd enjoy being able to ride a train instead of driving.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by hamellr

I personally think that a line from Portland to Salem would be a good idea. I know that when I travel to Salem for business reasons, it'd be worth it to me. I know quite a few people who currently commute on a daily basis who'd enjoy being able to ride a train instead of driving.

That was the purpose of Amtrak Cascade, though it only runs a few times a day.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by EnricoV

That was the purpose of Amtrak Cascade, though it only runs a few times a day.

I thought it ran 10x per day , and only 3x to Canada.

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

I thought it ran 10x per day , and only 3x to Canada.

It does go in both directions ... a few trips north and a few trips south. But, geared mostly towards commuting times.