Oregon's Middle Class (Portland, Medford, Ashland: house, job market, to buy)

[Dual Citizen CA-OR]

I completely agree with the article, but the same observations could be made about the vast majority, if not all of our states.

For professional and highly skilled workers it makes perfect sense to apply from out of state. As someone else mentioned in another thread, many companies (including mine) can’t find the local engineering talent and need to recruit from all over the country.

So while I agree that to move to a new state without the funds to support yourself for however long it takes to land a job is a bad idea, I find it hard to believe that many unskilled, bartender or waitress type jobs are filled by online applicants.

[davemess10]

Originally Posted by khyron

I think I probably just needed to define "job prospects" to be clear on what I meant by it. If you possess a certain skillset, and move someplace where you know there to be active hiring going on for positions you have good reason to expect you have a shot at, I don't see that as irresponsible at all. In fact, in an environment like that, I wouldn't advocate taking a job beforehand any more than I would advocate renting housing site unseen. If you know there to be ample supply, then hey show up and shop in person and try and land the very best opportunities which match your desires and abilities.

What I'm criticizing is the behavioral pattern that skips all that, without realizing that what can seem like "being a dreamer" to one's self can, without proper preparation and a reasonable degree of responsibility, quickly turn into just being a burden on others (even if it's not direct financial impact through entitlement programs, for example even if you're just a "drain" on the community by sticking around in some scratched together unrelated job field you hate, contributing nothing and bringing those around you down while not really advancing towards your own goals).

I don't think it's important for everyone to be some Type A "go getter," in fact if there were too many people like that here I think Portland wouldn't be as laid back and comfortable as I find it...however there is such a thing as understanding cause and effect and the role your choices play in the outcomes of your life.

The universe is not fair, and nobody has a right to happiness. They have a right to pursue it. Hooray for active verbs.

Looks like you've adapted to Portland perfectly already. And in record time!!!!

Seriously how is someone coming to Portland, and working in a coffee shop bringing those around them down and contributing nothing? People are needed to pump gas (more so in this state than other), flip burgers, collect your garbage, and paint super cool murals on the sides of buildings.

I don't get why this bugs people so much on this board. If you don't like people asking these questions, simply don't answer them or even open the thread.

[davemess10]

Sorry to get back to the original subject, but........

What is actually the going rate for being "middle class" these days?

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by davemess10

Sorry to get back to the original subject, but........

What is actually the going rate for being "middle class" these days?

Good question. I guess you have to look up governemnt statistics to find that out as far as income goes. When I was out of work for a couple of years I guess I was "no class" because I didn't earn anything to speak of.

[khyron]

Originally Posted by davemess10

Seriously how is someone coming to Portland, and working in a coffee shop bringing those around them down and contributing nothing? People are needed to pump gas (more so in this state than other), flip burgers, collect your garbage, and paint super cool murals on the sides of buildings.

Dude, I think you need to scroll back and re-read what I said. You're attributing a statement and an attitude to me which simply aren't there. Maybe other express such an attitude but I certainly don't.

There's absolutely nothing "wrong" with working any job you want to. I don't care if someone's a barista or an executive, I've known plenty of both (and I probably don't have to tell you which tend to be happier people). What I criticized is that when some people fail to find their bliss in a given place, they take up some unrelated "temporary" career and then sometimes they dead end in it for years, complaining on and on about how it's someone or something else's "fault" that they "have" to do that job instead of what they wanted to do. I don't understand why those people don't just move on at some point. There's no need to get bitter and be a constant drag on other people.

It's absolutely true that plenty of people work in a coffee shop or whatever and love it, as a matter of fact the dude I bought a bagel from this morning certainly seemed to be having the time of his life doing it (we ended up chatting for like ten minutes because things were slow and I had a lot of curiosities about their menu). There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. In fact I salute anyone who can manage to put together a sustainable lifestyle on a reasonable budget without resorting to cubicle slavery. I used to do that once, and @#$% that noise.

It just makes me sad when I hear people complain about things they have absolute control over, which they're just refusing to seize. This isn't a Portland thing by any means. In every city I've lived, there have been some folks who just can't seem to accept the way things are...but have neither the will to try and change their community nor the energy to explore other places. I think that's sad. Life is too short to just grumble about everything as if it's up to other people to make sure things go your way. We don't live in amusement parks. In the real world, it's up to you, that's all I'm saying.

[khyron]

Originally Posted by davemess10

Sorry to get back to the original subject, but........

What is actually the going rate for being "middle class" these days?

I think it's delusional for anyone to simply define "middle class" by an income bracket. I suppose that might be an economist's definition, but for me being "middle class" as opposed to "struggling" isn't just about how much you take home in a month. It's more like, how much freedom do you have, how comfortable are you, what does your hierarchy of need look like?

For example consider a waitress and a bartender living in an inexpensive apartment in a so-so part of town. What if they have considerable savings, some wise investments, and just choose not to live ostentatiously because what they really value are going out to concerts and traveling whenever they have time off? What if their skills are fairly portable, and if disaster strikes their lifestyle they can easily transplant themselves into a new city? What if they're totally happy this way, and have no real concern for whether one of them ever "makes it big" in a conspicuously demonstrable way?

Now compare that couple to a highly specialized IT worker and a real estate agent living in a huge McMansion driving two expensive cars, all of which they are upside down on in addition to massive credit card debt. They might pull in $200k a year, but they're less than one month's pay from losing everything and they have no liquidity or safety net whatsoever. All of their friends probably think they're "middle class" and so would their families and coworkers. But in truth, are they? Or are they abject failures? If something goes wrong, what if neither of them can get a job where they live? They can't ever move, because they're chained to all their crap including their land and their silly home.

I think "middle class" should mean "I get to do what I want most of the time and I have few concerns" and "if something goes wrong generally I'm prepared for change and won't have my lifestyle destroyed." Maybe I'm alone in that, but in my mind that's what not-being-poor is about. It's not about cash coming in, but rather how much control you have over your happiness and how little control external forces have on you.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

^^^
Bingo Khyron, you got it!

[makeitagreatday]

....simply do not need jobs to relocate to Portland because our income is not dependant upon whatever jobs may or may not be there and have the availability to move where we choose based on the natural beauty of the area.

[Daisy32673]

Originally Posted by makeitagreatday

....simply do not need jobs to relocate to Portland because our income is not dependant upon whatever jobs may or may not be there and have the availability to move where we choose based on the natural beauty of the area.

But a lot do and they may think moving from a HCOL area to PDX will be better for them
Dont forget you're not the only one considering moving here and not every post is targeted towards yourself

[ccjarider]

As a newcomer here to Portland - I liked that fact that others before me, came here with no plan.
I was able to buy their house for almost nothing (Heck - I only did it to help them out

Actually are there THAT many people contemplating moving here or is just a figment of internet traffic imagination??