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Old 05-07-2013, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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So is there anyone here that would ride a streetcar in Portland but not a bus taking the same exact route?
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is there anyone here that would ride a streetcar in Portland but not a bus taking the same exact route?
I almost never took the bus when I lived in Portland, always preferred train over bus. Often times I would either walk or bike to where I was going. If it was a little further I would take a train if it was in my route. If that wasn't an option, I would take a cab or drive my car.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: the Beaver State
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is there anyone here that would ride a streetcar in Portland but not a bus taking the same exact route?
I have only once ridden a bus in my life, and that was in San Francisco. I later found out I could have taken BART to my destination anyways.

But I use the heck out of my company-sponsored Trimet Pass. MAX to the airport and back at least once a month. Every weekend MAX from Beaverton to Downtown, or occasionally out to Hillsboro. It's fun to take your bike out to Hillsboro, and then ride up to the Bank-Vernonia Trail, have lunch in Vernonia, ride back to the MAX, then take it downtown to have dinner in Portland. Or we'll go out drinking in Downtown and use the MAX to get home safely when a little on the tipsy side.

If I have a meeting downtown, MAX. If my destination is within a mile walk of a MAX stop, I'll take MAX. If I'm not expecting to carry any heavy packages, then I'll bike three-fives miles from a MAX stop.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by hamellr View Post
I have only once ridden a bus in my life, and that was in San Francisco. I later found out I could have taken BART to my destination anyways.

But I use the heck out of my company-sponsored Trimet Pass. MAX to the airport and back at least once a month. Every weekend MAX from Beaverton to Downtown, or occasionally out to Hillsboro. It's fun to take your bike out to Hillsboro, and then ride up to the Bank-Vernonia Trail, have lunch in Vernonia, ride back to the MAX, then take it downtown to have dinner in Portland. Or we'll go out drinking in Downtown and use the MAX to get home safely when a little on the tipsy side.

If I have a meeting downtown, MAX. If my destination is within a mile walk of a MAX stop, I'll take MAX. If I'm not expecting to carry any heavy packages, then I'll bike three-fives miles from a MAX stop.
Well, I think most people would take rail because they're making long trips, right? There's no question that traveling 15 miles on a subway moving 65 mph with its own ROW is far superior to a bus moving 20 mph in mixed traffic.

But for shorter trips, which is what a streetcar is for, would the same rail bias apply? For example, if you were living in a condo that was a 5 minute drive from Downtown on a direct route, would you not take a bus to work (assuming you worked downtown)? Or would you only take transit unless some type of rail was involved (streetcar, light rail, subway, etc.)?
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:04 PM
 
Location: the Beaver State
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But for shorter trips, which is what a streetcar is for, would the same rail bias apply? For example, if you were living in a condo that was a 5 minute drive from Downtown on a direct route, would you not take a bus to work (assuming you worked downtown)? Or would you only take transit unless some type of rail was involved (streetcar, light rail, subway, etc.)?
Five minutes drive from downtown? That's walking or bike riding distance for me and I suspect a lot of Portlanders.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,350,352 times
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So is there anyone here that would ride a streetcar in Portland but not a bus taking the same exact route?
Well both ways for me. Depending upon whichever came first. I will give you an example. When the number 17 bus used to go to and from NW Portland along some of the same route I would take whichever came first.

But as they say, six of one, half dozen of the other.

Last edited by Minervah; 05-07-2013 at 05:29 PM.. Reason: Kinda clarifying.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:55 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 17,461,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Well, I think most people would take rail because they're making long trips, right? There's no question that traveling 15 miles on a subway moving 65 mph with its own ROW is far superior to a bus moving 20 mph in mixed traffic.

But for shorter trips, which is what a streetcar is for, would the same rail bias apply? For example, if you were living in a condo that was a 5 minute drive from Downtown on a direct route, would you not take a bus to work (assuming you worked downtown)? Or would you only take transit unless some type of rail was involved (streetcar, light rail, subway, etc.)?
A lot of people will take the street car or light rail for short trips over the bus, because they rarely check tickets on them as opposed to the bus. The fact that it's basically an honor system for the Portland Street Car or MAX means that people going a short distance can just jump on and jump off and risk it(unless there's a big event where they'll often check tickets coming off the train). Sort of a sad but true reality of our transit system.

So it sort of keeps ridership up, yet the city loses revenue. There used to be a free transit zone area in downtown and the area directly over the river(Rose Garden Arena), though they got rid of that after a brief period as the free rail zone. Now everything is expected to be a paid.

I think though that many frequent transit riders(and loyally paying Trimet customers) will just take the bus or train or street car or whatever comes first on their route. Though I think for more infrequent transit riders in Portland(and tourist or other visitors) they are more likely to hop on the light rail or street car for a short trip instead of walking rather than a bus--or for longer trips. I know people in the suburbs who will take MAX downtown from Hillsboro for an event or Blazers game, yet they'd never consider taking a bus. And it people will on the spur of the moment decide to hop on the street car for short ride through downtown--whereas bus riders tend to people who know their routes and are relying on it to get around.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,350,352 times
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Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
A lot of people will take the street car or light rail for short trips over the bus, because they rarely check tickets on them as opposed to the bus. The fact that it's basically an honor system for the Portland Street Car or MAX means that people going a short distance can just jump on and jump off and risk it(unless there's a big event where they'll often check tickets coming off the train). Sort of a sad but true reality of our transit system.

So it sort of keeps ridership up, yet the city loses revenue. There used to be a free transit zone area in downtown and the area directly over the river(Rose Garden Arena), though they got rid of that after a brief period as the free rail zone. Now everything is expected to be a paid.

I think though that many frequent transit riders(and loyally paying Trimet customers) will just take the bus or train or street car or whatever comes first on their route. Though I think for more infrequent transit riders in Portland(and tourist or other visitors) they are more likely to hop on the light rail or street car for a short trip instead of walking rather than a bus--or for longer trips. I know people in the suburbs who will take MAX downtown from Hillsboro for an event or Blazers game, yet they'd never consider taking a bus. And it people will on the spur of the moment decide to hop on the street car for short ride through downtown--whereas bus riders tend to people who know their routes and are relying on it to get around.
I think that's a very accurate accounting. I have an all zones Honored Citizens pass so cost wise I can take anything anywhere not that I ever cheated when I had to pay full fare, but you do have a point that people will take light rail and the streetcar because they can ride for free.

One time I took the MAX there was actually a fare inspector on it. People were alerted he was coming through in my car from the next and you never saw so many scurring to leave the train. I turned to the guy next to me who had his pass out and he said it really looked like the rasts deserting the sinking ship. The fare inspector never even bothered making it to our car. I'm certain the cheats just hopped onto the next train. And this was just last Fall, after TriMet boasted about beefing up the fare collecting system.

As far as which I take, as I mentioned, whatever gets me there the quickest. I think the bus is faster than the streetcar so if it's going in the same direction, I prefer it. But it's really not much of a choice because the streetcar route is so limited. The only place it goes where I want to go is NW Portland. I
go there a lot. Since I am already on the number 15 that goes up there directly from my neighborhood, it wouldn't make sense for me to get off downtown and transfer to the streetcar.

I think a lot of students take the streetcar to PSU because it is handy for them and tourists take it because it is fun to take it from downtown to NW to see all the attactions both places have to offer.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,048,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
A lot of people will take the street car or light rail for short trips over the bus, because they rarely check tickets on them as opposed to the bus. The fact that it's basically an honor system for the Portland Street Car or MAX means that people going a short distance can just jump on and jump off and risk it(unless there's a big event where they'll often check tickets coming off the train). Sort of a sad but true reality of our transit system.

So it sort of keeps ridership up, yet the city loses revenue. There used to be a free transit zone area in downtown and the area directly over the river(Rose Garden Arena), though they got rid of that after a brief period as the free rail zone. Now everything is expected to be a paid.

I think though that many frequent transit riders(and loyally paying Trimet customers) will just take the bus or train or street car or whatever comes first on their route. Though I think for more infrequent transit riders in Portland(and tourist or other visitors) they are more likely to hop on the light rail or street car for a short trip instead of walking rather than a bus--or for longer trips. I know people in the suburbs who will take MAX downtown from Hillsboro for an event or Blazers game, yet they'd never consider taking a bus. And it people will on the spur of the moment decide to hop on the street car for short ride through downtown--whereas bus riders tend to people who know their routes and are relying on it to get around.
This just made me laugh a little bit, during my years living in Portland I have worked in the hotel industry for a few hotels downtown and you would laugh so hard every time a tourist would ask me how to get to the light rail or streetcar to go one stop. I use to get the question on how to get to the Stark St stop for the streetcar so they could go to Powells Books in the Pearl. I would also get asked how to get to the light rail at Big Pink to take it to the Pioneer Mall. So many times I had to explain to people how short our blocks are by pointing from one stop light to the next and saying that is the length of every block in Portland, trust me you can walk four blocks in a few minutes here. Tourists never failed to amaze me with the stupid questions I would get asked.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,048,869 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I think that's a very accurate accounting. I have an all zones Honored Citizens pass so cost wise I can take anything anywhere not that I ever cheated when I had to pay full fare, but you do have a point that people will take light rail and the streetcar because they can ride for free.

One time I took the MAX there was actually a fare inspector on it. People were alerted he was coming through in my car from the next and you never saw so many scurring to leave the train. I turned to the guy next to me who had his pass out and he said it really looked like the rasts deserting the sinking ship. The fare inspector never even bothered making it to our car. I'm certain the cheats just hopped onto the next train. And this was just last Fall, after TriMet boasted about beefing up the fare collecting system.

As far as which I take, as I mentioned, whatever gets me there the quickest. I think the bus is faster than the streetcar so if it's going in the same direction, I prefer it. But it's really not much of a choice because the streetcar route is so limited. The only place it goes where I want to go is NW Portland. I
go there a lot. Since I am already on the number 15 that goes up there directly from my neighborhood, it wouldn't make sense for me to get off downtown and transfer to the streetcar.

I think a lot of students take the streetcar to PSU because it is handy for them and tourists take it because it is fun to take it from downtown to NW to see all the attactions both places have to offer.
During the year I lived in Cedar Mills, I would often times drive to the Northwest District because the park and ride for the MAX was full, and just park in Northwest and take the streetcar to class at PSU so I wouldn't have to pay for parking, and seeing that I already had quarterly paid transit through the school, it wasn't a big deal which form of transit I took.
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