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Old 03-17-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,858 posts, read 11,873,616 times
Reputation: 10027

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwoody View Post
Eggsactly.

On a positive note, Portland metro has the best overall drivers of the places I've lived. (the zombies are not dangerous, just irritating) I rarely see any real bonehead moves in my daily driving.
Did you not stop to think that just maybe, the other places where traffic is more consistently stuck against the limit or consistently over it... ... those places have more accidents? I'll bet you've had a couple in your life. Most people have. Would you really rather have people aggressively defending their average speed or being defensive no matter what that entails. There are always slowpokes. They are NOT the majority of road users. Not in Portland, not anywhere. Let's just cut the crap. If you want to talk about the inability to pump one's own fuel or the lack of a sales tax. Have at it. At least those talking points have basis in fact. I guess you like having your car totalled or otherwise out of commission because someone aggressive T-boned you in an intersection. If you really do appreciate the fact that, overall, road-craft is higher here than other places, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Why didn't you write an o.p. praising Portland's drivers for their high level of discipline? Why focus on a negative? A negative that doesn't even have any basis in fact. I'm not understanding.

H
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:18 PM
 
121 posts, read 164,439 times
Reputation: 151
Since I drive defensively and have successfully avoided an accident everywhere I have driven for the almost 30 years I have been licensed, I can't really comment on whether it is easier to do in the Portland area, accident avoidance is simply second nature.

Here is an interesting find though, according to the CDC LA metro and Chicago metro have lower traffic fatality rates per 100K than Portland metro. LA and Chicago are consistently cited as having some of the fastest drivers in the country, I regularly drive in Chicago and can vouch for the fact that they drive faster, and have driven in LA where they seemed to drive fast at any opportunity. Yet at 6.8 Portland's fatality rate is higher versus 5.9 for Chicago and 6.6 for LA.

mvcFatalitiesMap

Driving speed and accidents don't seem to have a direct correlation.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,858 posts, read 11,873,616 times
Reputation: 10027
I drove in LA once. Never again. I drove for years in NYC/NJ and my brother who is a CDL lets other people drive him around when he is in NYC. I can drive in NYC and I haven't had any accidents there. I rode a bike there too, was a bike messenger for a while in fact. Traffic is a dance. The madness of LA made me real nervous but I noticed that the other drivers around me were not at all concerned. I'd see a flagrant violation of a cars right of way and there wouldn't be a single horn blast or offensive gesture, nothing! In NYC the offended driver would get on your tail with his horn blaring and it would be blocks before his anger dissipated enough for him to see straight again. During that interval while he was blacked out with rage, any number of bad things could happen. I don't know where NYC comes in on that map but I'd not think it is all that favorable.

Thing is, half of Portland's drivers learned their roadcraft somewhere else. Mostly California. Most days its only Californians and Oregonians on Portland's boulevards. 50/50. In LA the other guy zigs and you zag, neither of you think about it. In Portland the other guy zigs and the Portland driver freezes, because Portland drivers don't normally zig. Or zag for that matter. Diametrically opposite road cultures and they meet head on, in a city with narrow streets, walkable blocks, a pedestrian centric environment. It's not at all hard for me to see that this might negatively impact Portland's score on a map like that. And? What? Portland could become more like NYC. A driver presented with a yellow signal in NYC floors it and any peds in the way better scatter. If you are old, or slow or daydreaming you become a statistic. If otoh you approach intersections with some caution, of necessity your overall speed is going to be lower. Don't tell me it can be both ways. You cannot cruise 5 or more miles over the speed limit and get every green light just so. You are out of sync with the lights and that means you will be coming up against yellow and red signals more often than not. Probably you don't run any reds but you blast through plenty of yellows. That impacts pedestrians.

Portland's pedestrian safety and walkability scores are high because drivers for the most part get it. It wasn't always so. It may not always be so. But for now it is. I don''t see it as something to post about. But that's me, I don't get why its all that important that Oregon have a sales tax. Some of you should look at other state forums and see the things that are discussed. Some are serious, some are silly, but most don't rant about things that are. Things that are, are. Portland drivers are slow. The women don't shave their pits. The men don't work. No one uses umbrellas when it rains, like God intended. Someone will always agree with these opinions and some will always disagree. Zero sum. Waste o' time. BTW, those of you who think it necessary to go out to 82nd st. to find good Chinese food. Give Ling Garden's @ 21st and Lovejoy at try. Clean, tasty, and very underrated IMO. FWIW.

H
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:47 PM
 
121 posts, read 164,439 times
Reputation: 151
New York metro comes in at 5.1 so lower yet. I can't prove it, but I would assume that their are fewer New York drivers per 100K population or at least the miles driven by a driver per annum would be lower.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:24 PM
 
892 posts, read 1,585,788 times
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If this if the first time someone is hearing about slow drivers in Portland (and Oregon in general), they've not been paying attention.

There are articles in the paper about slow pokes on the freeway. One of the state congresspeople tried to introduce a bill to prevent slow drivers from hogging the left lane of the freeway.

I've complained about slow drivers before and its one of the irritants of Portland. Most of the time I just go with the flow but other times, it's just frustrating.

On a clear day, is it so hard to drive the speed limit?
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:27 PM
 
4,059 posts, read 5,588,520 times
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I haven't dug into the data, but I'd wager most fatalities are occurring outside of rush. Statistically fatal crashes are most likely between midnight and 4 a.m. and alcohol is more likely to be a factor than avg. driving speeds.

Chicago and NYC both have better public transportation, and state rates (6.0 NY, 7.6 IL) are also much lower than OR (9.5).

L.A. is a different story, but the data on that map suggests there's more layers to it than was originally presented above. The LA MSA has a rate of 6.6, but both the LA center city (7.7) and Anaheim (7.8) are much higher than Pdx's central city (6.2). Likewise, the adjoining MSA of Riverside/SanBern has a much higher rate of 10.6

So it seems like cherry-picking one data point from a half dozen to say L.A. is lower. Perhaps it's just that more drunks in Orange County have sober limo drivers that brings down the rate for the L.A. MSA overall.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Just outside of Portland
4,828 posts, read 7,412,796 times
Reputation: 5115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The Gold Standard for fuel efficiency in the U.S. in 2014 are the hybrids. They are proud of fuel economy in the mid 40's miles per gallon. I have no idea what 700 miles per tankful means and neither does anyone who doesn't know the size of the tank that is in discussion. Cute. 700mpt. Sounds impressive, and its meant to sound that way. May not actually mean anything. Probably doesn't. European diesels are hitting 65mpg but aren't allowed to be sold in the U.S. Doesn't matter, it isn't good enough, green enough or sustainable in the longer term. Only pure electric propulsion will ever realize the efficiency needed and the zero emissions targets necessary to make future transportation economically and environmentally sustainable.
Well I actually looked it up (it's not a mystery, there is information out there) instead of just blathering about it....

The Passat gets up to 43mpg and has a range of up to 795 miles.
795 divided by 43 equals 18.5 gallons.

So, to simply answer the block of meaningless text above, the VW Passat TDI can get up to 795 miles on 18.5 gallons of diesel.

Sounds impressive and is impressive.

I won't say totally electric cars are a "trend".
They are here to stay.
But they are mainly considered "city cars"....

Gas and Deisel cars won't be going away anytime soon.

Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 03-18-2014 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,858 posts, read 11,873,616 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx View Post
Well I actually looked it up (it's not a mystery, there is information out there) instead of just blathering about it....

The Passat gets up to 43mpg and has a range of up to 795 miles.
795 divided by 43 equals 18.5 gallons.

So, to simply answer the block of meaningless text above, the VW Passat TDI can get up to 795 miles on 18.5 gallons of diesel.

Sounds impressive and is impressive.

I won't say totally electric cars are a "trend".
They are here to stay.
But they are mainly considered "city cars"....

Gas and Deisel cars won't be going away anytime soon.
You had to look it up. My point. Miles per gallon is an established metric that people get without needing to "look it up". My point. So... the VW Passat gets 43mpg. That is NOT impressive. It isn't even close to impressive. I never said Gas or Diesel vehicles were going anywhere anythime soon. But they should. They should already be long gone.

H
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Just outside of Portland
4,828 posts, read 7,412,796 times
Reputation: 5115
Quote:
You had to look it up. My point. Miles per gallon is an established metric that people get without needing to "look it up".
Really?
How does one get through life without having to "look things up"?
I went to VW's website and all the "established metrics" are there.
Nothing mysterious or being held back. It's all right there.

Knowledge isn't transferred psychically through the ether.
How the hell would anyone know about anything without looking things up?
We aren't born knowing everything about everything.

All I said was it has a potential range of 795 miles on one tankful.
(BTW thats about 200 bucks and three tankfuls to drive to New York from Portland.)
I was the one that did not provide all the information, not VW, nor some dumb marketing ploy.

43 mpg is impressive considering the average fuel operated car or SUV gets mid 20's for highway miles.
The Passat is not a teeny tiny little tin can car either.
43mpg is impressive for a four door 3400lb fuel car, no matter what you say.
A Prius weighs just slightly less and only gets a few mpg more.
They cost about the same.

I'll let you in on a secret. I drive an early 90's diesel F250.
It wieghs 7000lbs.
I got bored one day and did the math, and my old truck is more efficient per pound than a brand new Prius, although the Prius gets much better mileage.
Meaning, that it takes less energy for my truck to move 7000 pounds one mile, than it takes a Prius to move 3000 pounds one mile.
So what's the better vehicle?

Honestly, I think you have a very warped, biased, and unrealistic opinion on the future of fuel operated vehicles (cars).
Until something better and more economical comes along, they will be around.

Until they start mass producing an totally electric car or truck that is inexpensive, has the power to actually do some work, has long range, and is easily recharged anywhere/anyplace in the US, gas and diesel vehicles (or hybrids---for very light duty vehicles) will remain the top dogs.
Electric automobile technology has come a long way, but is still in it's infancy.

I don't know for a fact, but I suspect the processes it takes to manufacture the batteries and produce the electricity probably produces more of a "carbon footprint" and more pollution than manufacturing and operating an efficient fuel powered vehicle.
For all I know it's a wash, so personal preference probably is what dictates what you drive.

My friend, we will have to agree to disagree on this, I guess.

Last edited by pdxMIKEpdx; 03-18-2014 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:06 PM
 
2,542 posts, read 6,890,637 times
Reputation: 2635
Was it one of you behind my friend the other month I was in Portland?! She was going very slow, and someone kept honking behind her and she thought he had the problem. But I can also see how you would get use to going slow if you drive a lot in the neighborhoods, since the streets are packed with parked cars and there are people biking and walking and crossing the road.

I5 drives nicely, although when I was comparing travel times between our houses with the same friend, I said that at 70 mph (5 over), I get to my house is 2.5 hours. Her reply (aghast), "But isn't the speed limit 65?" Perhaps I shouldn't take the posted limit as a suggestion so much, but driving five-ten over isn't a new concept, either.
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