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Portland is very safe for a bigger city. Yes, there's crime just like anyplace, but if you look at crime rates, you will see how much safer. And the violent crime is substantially lower. There's not as much straight-up ghetto that you see elsewhere.
The weather is a huge factor if you are not used to it. It WILL take some getting used to. People hole up during the winter. This might contribute to Northwesterners "different" ways of interacting. But if you need a sun fix, just drive east over the Cascades.
I do , too & I do not live in Portland, but in New York which does have measureable snow. I should be used to the driving , but I still am afraid to drive in it . Many people drive as if the roads were totally clear.
It's the hills that make it so difficult to drive in snow here. West Burnside often gets shut down when a few inches of snow fall, because of numerous accidents or a stuck bus that's gone horizontal. When this happens, it creates a back-up all over the place. Gridlock on snowy hills spells major trouble, because it's one thing to zip up a hill with momentum; it's quite another to get going again after stopping.
Probably more jobs in Seattle but also more expensive. On a personal level I just dont like the place, and I lived there for ~7 years. Never felt like home. Dirtier, more crime, people are not as nice, traffic is worse, list goes on. Live in Portland and do some weekend sightseeing in Seattle (which i'll admit there is more of...)
Live in Portland and do some weekend sightseeing in Seattle (which i'll admit there is more of...)
Agree with most of what you say...good points. I like to use the notion of the 2- to 3-hour driving radius. Seattle, in my mind, has a better one because you can hit both Vancouver or Victoria and come down south to PDX or the northern reaches of the Oregon Coast. Now, for Portland, I don't think that the southward reach of the driving radius is as interesting.
As a native Southern Californian, I often used the same concept to defend LA over SD, even though SD is more livable and the polls show that. It's just that, from SD, your driving radius is truncated by the proximity to Mexico. (One is better off flying to a more far-flung destination in Mexico and enjoying it like a tourist than dealing with the stuff immediately over the border.)
So, you're right, Portland is more benign and an easier life according to numerous categories.
Unless you work for the government, medical or are already wealthy, you will probably have a hard time here. Most of Portland is SERVICE based. Meaning, restaurants and bars. There is very little high tech here, not very many big corporations and overall, not a lot of jobs. If you take a service industry job, get used to lousy tipping. Getting 15% is lucky here.
If you are black, you will probably refer to Portland as "Utopia", as a friend of mine who left here for the Bay area did. Portland likes to think of itself as very open minded to all races, but they fail to remember what they did to the blacks in this region. They specifically made laws where they couldn't own or buy property except in only one place; the MLK area. And now, they are forcing them out of there through real estate price increases and so called gentrification. If you are black and even remotely menacing looking, expect people to walk away from you on the sidewalk. This is a "Mayberry Mentality" city. This city is only open minded when it suits their personal agenda. They are also totally happy with Mexicans and other illegal migrants sitting around on side walks and littering up the place all day in the name of Human Rights. And let's not even get into the fact that they defecate in people's door ways and wee on people's cars. Don't believe me? Go hang around SE Ankeny and 6th all day. Take a good look.
The city is heavily socialist. It's tax happy and if you do happen to make a decent living, you will find the gov likes to take as much as it can and redistribute it to certain "programs". This happens everywhere in Amerika, but it is very prevalent in Portland. Portland tends to think that it runs the whole state of Oregon as well. They really don't care much for the people in the smaller regions. Very much a sort of suedo class warfare.
There is some good food and some good small farms. Don't know how long that will last though, with Monsanto and ADM trying to ruin the world with the help of the USDA, it's only a matter of time before it falls. For right now though, you can get good local food here. But you'll have to hook up with a co-op to get it. Whole Foods and New Seasons aren't going to have that much. And Wild Oats just got bought out.
There are things to do here. If your coming from a small town from nowhere, you'll be entertained. If your coming from a big city, you realize that Portland is a poser city in a lot of respects. As someone on here said before, "it tries to be NY with out the class." It is a Hipster enclave, and basically most people are full of it. Lots of emo junk music. There are some goods bands and underground stuff. Some bands from Cali and Seattle have relocated here do to it being somewhat cheaper than there. Although, this is about over. Check Craigslist and you will see how expensive it is to live here. And the prices don't reflect wages, unlike Seattle. The Portland real estate market is a collusion between real estate speculators and government. It has has driven prices up to ridiculous levels that in no way reflect what this city has to offer. And the city is happy to tax you on your property value. You can also get raked over on leases here real easy. I suggest being careful about "NO CAUSE" evictions. You will not get much for your money here. Expect the fall of the real estate market bubble to hit every where else first. It will hit the NW last.
Crime isn't that bad. Nothing lethal. It's mostly vandalism and theft, which is rampant. If you have a decent car, you might want to find secured parking for it. It will most likely get spray tagged, have the mirrors broken off or have some other type of stupid vandalism applied to it. Don't leave valuables in the car and use a radio with a removable face. You don't have to worry about being shot or raped. Unless you specifically set out to go get shot or raped. I'm sure you could find it out past 82nd if you looked hard enough.
Not that much traffic. You'll get rush hour on I-5, 26 West and 84 at the usual hours. Some parts of 99E are bad in the city too between 5 and 7 pm. In general, it's pretty easy to get around. Public transit isn't all it's cracked up to be. The Max(train) basically only goes up, down, left, right. You'll more than likely take a bus if anything. Busses are pretty much the same in every city that I have experienced. People can't drive. PERIOD. When you take your DMV test, you'll see why. Get ready for bikers that think they own the road. They don't follow laws, ride recklessly if they can actually ride their bike to begin with and get all pissy when they cut you off and almost get hit by you( or actually do in some cases). A lot of people ride fixies and old junk that they can barely get a up a hill. A derailleur is SIN here. Which brings up my next point...
Portland is a say one thing, do another, type city. It's all talk and no action here. If it's a bumper sticker, they are all over it. If it's actual work, forgetaboudit. They are also not into actual due diligence of fact finding either. They like to be told what is correct by a Democrat that promises everything to them ( I'm Libertarian if anything, if your wondering, and into sound money) They like to tell you how green and eco-conscious they are. What they don't tell you is how much mercury and dioxin are in the Columbia and Hood rivers from industrial dumping. They don't tell you about the old Manhattan Project 2 hours north that is leeching all kinds of junk down here. They don't tell you about how most of Oregon runs off of dams for electricity. Of which, most block Salmon routes and have no fish ladders. It's destroying a lot of the local Salmon supplies as well as other fish. Dams are also a big contributor to Ecoli in water thanks to the constant release streams that wash vegetation off the edges of the waterways and create bad algae. Go look on City-Data for Portland. Look up the Toxic Waste data. Get a good look at all those markers. There is also the euphemism of "public land". Oregon has so much "public land". Like the people own it. It is not public land, it's Government land owned by the FEDS, not citizens. And the FEDS do what they want with it. Such as burry radioactive waste and spent fuel rods in remote mountain areas. And if someone starts talking about how great the Urban Growth Boundary has been for the city, please proceed in slapping them black and blue. It's a scam. Just like the TRAM. And the Waterfront Development.
The coast and mountains are pretty. But if your thinking of a warm sunny beach you are sadly mistaken. It rains hard and is constantly windy from Oct. to March on the coast. It's not pleasant. In the summer it will get only up to about 75 or 78, and that's at late day temperatures. If it's 90 in Portland, you will have to drive 1 and a half hours to Cannon Beach or other, and get there at about 2 pm for it to be 75. And that will last to about 7pm. Then it drops down to the 50's. The wind creates a wind chill too. In Nehalem it can be vicious. The water temperature is always cold too. About 50. It's not swimming water. Surfers wear gear. It is pretty though. The cold/cool makes it loose it's luster.
The weather isn't that bad. It's mostly mizzle when it does rain. It rains the hardest between Nov. and March. You can get some good storms and floods then. Go search YouTube for December 2007 floods (Seattle suburbs go the worst). The summers are great. Dry and warm to hot. You can get some 90+ degree days. Some up to 100. Generally pretty good though. You will need air conditioning in the summer to be "comfortable". The stinky hippies will argue against this. But, as someone coming from Atlanta, I know hot. Trust me, you'll want it. Winter lows are around 35 to 39. You won't get much of any snow unless you go to the mountains. It will be a dusting if it happens in the city. Foothills, a little more. When the weather clears up it's colder. When it gets cloudy, it gets warmer.
The people vary here. I find the more friendly people being people transplanted here from the midwest and East Coast. You will find a lot of smugness here. It is becoming a transplant city though. There are panhandlers all over the place. But, these are generally not homeless people. These are junkies, tweakers, deadbeats and generally ignorant misfits. The real homeless don't ask you for money. They are the ones digging through your trash at 3am looking for bottle returns. They will also try to take your parking spots with their vehicle, if they have one, and park it there forever to live out of it. That can be a problem on the inner east side in that respect. They usually are friendly though. In a Psychic Vampire kind of way. There are also some really disturbed and crazy individuals here. There is a high concentration of loons all over the place. Some of them homeless, some of them not. I don't think I have ever been in a city with this high of a concentration of mentally ill people before. And you can only blame so much on the "greys". Of which, you will have to get used to. It can be hard adjusting to long term overcast and cloudy conditions. Better like coffee.
Well this is getting long. I'll end with this. Move to where you know you can make great money. Because you can always take a vacation when you have money. If you are in a beautiful place, but poor and struggling, a paradise will look like a slum. You will never have any time to enjoy it.
Ignoring most of the other stuff you exaggerated I'll comment on one thing--New Seasons and local produce...totally incorrect. They buy much of their produce locally, or as much as possible. It's a great store--ask local growers. Don't lump a locally owned store with Whole Foods.
Whole Foods, previously Wild Oats, on SE Burnside, has about 30% local at best. It gets better when produce is in season. Most stuff is coming out of California. 80% of the meat is from California or foreign. Their lamb and pork, for now, are Oregon. Whole Foods treats that store as it's dumping ground for expiring products.
Whole Foods, west side, has more local. But even still, a lot is imported from elsewhere. Let's also not forget about the recent lawsuit brought against Whole Foods for false advertising of a certain venders food, only for it to turn out to be false. They were advertising it, but it was someone else food.
New Seasons on Division, has more local produce. But they have less local meat. A lot of fish comes from Mexico and Georgia. They have a lot more imported products. A lot of fruit from California.
Sheridans food market has a good selection of local meat. Too bad everything else in the store has a sticker on it that starts with 4.
If you want TRUE local food, co-op and dealing with the small farms direct is the way to go. Or going to the Saturday markets.
well at least you got the traffic and weather right. My question to you though is what if you really can't make good money anywhere with your life's work (aka, an non-commerically viable artist) and you need the resources of a city (aka rural areas and conservative cities are out) that is somewhat hospitable to you. Then what? Don't say pick another line of work.
well at least you got the traffic and weather right. My question to you though is what if you really can't make good money anywhere with your life's work (aka, an non-commerically viable artist) and you need the resources of a city (aka rural areas and conservative cities are out) that is somewhat hospitable to you. Then what? Don't say pick another line of work.
I wish I had a good answer. I'm going through that myself. The truth is, Amerika is in a BUST, and will be for a long time. From the people I have talked to, Seattle has a better economy than Portland. More big business and International business and shipping. Which translates into more jobs and services. Which translates into people having more money to spend on art, clubs, music, galleries, filming, web content. They are also more educated. Portland is not business friendly. It is not free market friendly( actually, nothing in Amerika is when you get down to it). I come across a lot of people just getting by and who work on a "favor system". I won't say Seattle is a meca in a monetary regard, but it seems better than Portland. In terms of livability, Portland is better, but, it is also way smaller. It's a matter of scale. As an artist, if you have the means to make money online, travel, or sell your work outside of your locality, it becomes more of just asking yourself whether you just like living there. If you have to survive locally, or are working a full time job as well as trying to make money and get noticed doing your art, you have to have a good sense of what is happening around you and weed out the hype. Look at the numbers. Look what's being consumed or not being consumed. Look at how people operate. I'm out in the bars and clubs. I'm working with the bands. I'm talking with the film guys and studio owners. The market in Portland is saturated with a downturn economy. If a city relies heavily on services that are not "essential" services" for jobs, such as restaurants and bars, if it relies on big government both local and federal for jobs, when there is less money being spent, you will see heavy unemployment and lay-offs. People will have less money to eat out and drink. Government will have less tax revenue coming in and will liquidate non essential jobs. Inflation is already eating everyone alive. The only saving grace would be medical, because people always get sick. But the medical establishment here seems to rely heavily on cronyism from the local government. I've also talked to professors of some of the major colleges here, who I happened to be drinking with at Low Brow one night. His statement was that it is hard to get highly educated people to enroll in Portland. When given the choice between SF and Seattle or here, people will decide on one of those areas instead of Portland. Why spend all your money on schooling here when you won't have a job when you get out? Seattle is only 2 hours away.
If your asking me where to go to make money being an artist, there is no answer to that. All true artists have always suffered no matter where they have been. Art is not essential to life. People will choose food over a music CD every time. You can take solace in knowing that if your any good at what you do, you will probably make good money about 5 years after your dead.
For what it's worth, if your a musician, live shows are where it's at. You have to travel and be business savvy to make it work though.
Age 51, life long Oregonian and spent many years in and around Portland. Here would be my short & impartial opinion of Portland.
First, this is a beautiful city. No only is the city itself beautiful, but you have close & direct access to both the mountains & ocean. For those reasons alone I would not hesitate to recommend giving it a try. Now, for some short specifics:
1) Weather- it doesn't rain as much as people are led to believe. I think the issue is the lack of sun during the winter. As an ex-weatherman I keep track and it isn't unusual to go 20-30 days with less than 10 hours total of sun. Many people find that depressing. Aside from that I think the weather is great.
2) Political climate- Portland is a true elitist and aggressive liberal city. There is genuine & personal hostility to people who do not adhere to such an agenda. Very similar to racial hatred in the south is how anyone who does not follow the liberal agenda may be treated. I've seen people shunned by neighbors, personal bigoted attacks and many other disturbing thigs done to those that do not adhere. That said, many liberal ideals are good. They are just over pursued. But there are many areas to bike, we have a very dedicated mass transit system, I applaud the cit'y efforts to be as "green" as possible... The state legislature is decidedly liberal and they will over ride the spoken will of trhe people from ballot initiatives to follow an elitist liberal agenda at any cost- but at least they do so openly. I think anyone can respect that whether they agree with it or not.
3) Crime- Like any city with a metro population of 2.5 million we have gang violence, drug issues, home invasion robbers/murders... but it's certainly no different than any other west coast town. What we DO have in abundance is a under age homeless drug problem that according to several national publications is the worst in the country. The liberal enviroment makes this a haven for that type of activity. That causes some thorny problems downtown, but one gets used to it quickly enough.
4) Schools- Average. There's no real committment to actually make the education system better, per se, but the teacher's union (the strongest in the state) does ensure we have the highest paid teachers in the world (taking into account benefits). And those figuresd have been independantly verified. I would call Oregon's education system plain and without innovation. Home schooling is assailed by the teacher's union and charter schools have had to fight their way from the shadows. I see no real hope of that area improving. Most money set aside for educatio does not go to infratructure, but to the teachers and the union. It's so tightly controlled that it remminds me of the mafia. And this is someone who's been in the union.
5) Commuting- Like Seattle, Portland was never prepared fore the influx of people escaping California from the late 70's thru today. The roads & freeways are woefully over used and with rivers... it isn't going to get much better. In fact, it's a downward spiral that isn't going to end. To that end, the city is working aggresively on mass transit (which I applaud). We have no other option.
6) Employment- Good & bad. I think we have a very good employment base and job opportunities are above average. The down side is that so many people want to live here the competition for those jobs is unbelievable. Each job for a teacher will garner thousands of applications. I placed an ad for a claims adjuster (dental malpractice) and resumes poured in from all over North America. Hundreds and hundreds. Are there jobs- yes! Are they easy to obtain- no!
7) Cost of living- Poor. Housing costs (taking into account per capita family income) is in the top 10 worst in the country. We generally have the highest gas prices (or close to it). Taxes are oppressive. We have very high property taxes, state income tax (8%), and Portland is very big on local city & county taxes and floats several tax ideas each year. A study I recently read calls Oregon the 4th highest taxed state in the US.
8) Quality of life- Better than average. There's lots to do, it's a fairly clean city, it's a city that takes art seriously and has some sports teams to boot. It's hard for me to imagine anyone not finding something to do either in Portland or close by. I also appreciate the fact people the fact there really is something for everyone here. If one likes natural foods, they are in abundance. If one likes theater, from cheap to ungodly expensive, it's all here. And while the climate for being a small businessman is poor, there is a place for that here. I think we have fair to average restaurants (certainly nothing to cry about) and like any big city we have funky pockets that are a real gas.
All that to say, if I were you and you wanted to live in the Portland metro area, I'd suggest Vancouver in Washington. The taxes are much less, housing less, lower crime and better schools. And Portland is just across the river.
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Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads. 
Lot's of hype here
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