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So, I’ve been on the boards for a while now, throwing out questions about life in the PNW. My wife and I are planning to move there in the spring of ’09. The more I learn about the area, the more I’m leaning toward Seattle. But my wife prefers Portland.
I’m turning to all of you for your most honest opinions on the pluses and minuses on each community, in terms of what we’re looking for. I’d also appreciate it if you could help set me straight if any of my impressions are wrong.
I know there are some other Portland-vs-Seattle threads, but I'm looking for answers more specific to the things that concern us.
Politics. Portland seems more like a hippie/progressive enclave, for lefty idealists and environmentalists. Seattle has some of this, too, but not to the same extent. It seems more businesslike. Not conservative or corporate, but certainly a little more straitlaced that Portland. Correct?
I lean libertarian, and my wife is a huge environmentalist. We're both vegetarians and agnostics. She’d be happy living in an area where people respect her views, since we don’t get a lot of that now where we live. We don’t need to live in an echo chamber where everyone thinks just like us, but at least not being looked at like we’re kooks would be nice for a change.
Just as importantly, I don’t want to live in a place that’s dogmatically rigid. Doesn’t matter if it’s religion or politics -- fanatacism turns me off. To me, a truly “liberal” place is one where people follow the philosophy of live and let live … NOT one where people look down on you because you don’t subscribe 100% to their political views -- whether those views are liberal or conservative.
People. This will sound crazy to some people, but the Seattle Freeze sounds absolutely ideal to me. I think I’m an affable, friendly, easygoing guy, but I’m also not a social butterfly. So while I have no problem being perfectly courteous in a social situation -- getting along with coworkers, holding the elevator door open for someone, that kind of thing -- that doesn’t mean I want to go to your backyard BBQ or out for drinks after work. Advantage: Seattle. Correct? Or do people in Portland tend to keep to themselves, too?
Weather. Not an issue. I love clouds and rain. Bring it on. Not much difference between the two cities here, as far as I can tell.
Taxes. The ideal situation, we figure, would be to live and work maybe in Vancouver, and shop in Portland. That way we dodge the sales tax and the state income tax. But if we had to focus solely on one state, which one is better? Personally, I’m less morally opposed to a sales tax than to an income tax, but we’ll also be looking at buying our first house in a few years. Where is the property tax less of a burden? Which state has the lower overall tax burden?
Nature. Portland has its parks, and the Rose Test Garden, so I imagine it gets a leg up here. But also, what’s the surrounding natural scenery like? I know about Mount Hood, which looks beautiful and striking in every picture. But what about Seattle? Is Mount Rainier visible from the city and surrounding areas?
Public transportation. Advantage: Portland. I like to bike, and we currently own one car and carpool to or jobs (wife drops me off and picks me up). Seattle is not as bike-friendly and has fewer options for public transportation. Correct?
Traffic. All things being relative, we’re moving from the D.C. metro area, so ANYTHING would be an improvement over the traffic nightmare in this area. But it sounds like Seattle has more road congestion in general, while Portland/Vancouver has bottlenecks around the river. Right?
Cost of living. Seattle is higher, yes? At least for housing. But again, I can’t imagine it would be as bad as out here in D.C., where a median-income family simply can’t afford to buy.
Amenities. Both of us like to be able to retreat to peace and quiet in the evening, but I’ve also gotten spoiled having just about any store nearby that I could want. I imagine Seattle has just about everything, but what about Portland? How does it compare in terms of retail and restaurant variety? (I shop more than my wife does, believe it or not.)
Job market. Advantage: Seattle? I’ve read quite a bit on here about Seattle having better wages and more jobs, and Portland having lower wages and fewer jobs. In general, is this true? To my wife, the job market is not a huge concern, since as an accountant, she can get a job just about anywhere. But as a copy editor, I’m more specialized, and I figure Seattle will have more opportunities for me.
So, I’ve been on the boards for a while now, throwing out questions about life in the PNW. My wife and I are planning to move there in the spring of ’09. The more I learn about the area, the more I’m leaning toward Seattle. But my wife prefers Portland.
I’m turning to all of you for your most honest opinions on the pluses and minuses on each community, in terms of what we’re looking for. I’d also appreciate it if you could help set me straight if any of my impressions are wrong.
I know there are some other Portland-vs-Seattle threads, but I'm looking for answers more specific to the things that concern us.
Politics. Portland seems more like a hippie/progressive enclave, for lefty idealists and environmentalists. Seattle has some of this, too, but not to the same extent. It seems more businesslike. Not conservative or corporate, but certainly a little more straitlaced that Portland. Correct?
I lean libertarian, and my wife is a huge environmentalist. We're both vegetarians and agnostics. She’d be happy living in an area where people respect her views, since we don’t get a lot of that now where we live. We don’t need to live in an echo chamber where everyone thinks just like us, but at least not being looked at like we’re kooks would be nice for a change.
Just as importantly, I don’t want to live in a place that’s dogmatically rigid. Doesn’t matter if it’s religion or politics -- fanatacism turns me off. To me, a truly “liberal” place is one where people follow the philosophy of live and let live … NOT one where people look down on you because you don’t subscribe 100% to their political views -- whether those views are liberal or conservative.
People. This will sound crazy to some people, but the Seattle Freeze sounds absolutely ideal to me. I think I’m an affable, friendly, easygoing guy, but I’m also not a social butterfly. So while I have no problem being perfectly courteous in a social situation -- getting along with coworkers, holding the elevator door open for someone, that kind of thing -- that doesn’t mean I want to go to your backyard BBQ or out for drinks after work. Advantage: Seattle. Correct? Or do people in Portland tend to keep to themselves, too?
Weather. Not an issue. I love clouds and rain. Bring it on. Not much difference between the two cities here, as far as I can tell.
Taxes. The ideal situation, we figure, would be to live and work maybe in Vancouver, and shop in Portland. That way we dodge the sales tax and the state income tax. But if we had to focus solely on one state, which one is better? Personally, I’m less morally opposed to a sales tax than to an income tax, but we’ll also be looking at buying our first house in a few years. Where is the property tax less of a burden? Which state has the lower overall tax burden?
Nature. Portland has its parks, and the Rose Test Garden, so I imagine it gets a leg up here. But also, what’s the surrounding natural scenery like? I know about Mount Hood, which looks beautiful and striking in every picture. But what about Seattle? Is Mount Rainier visible from the city and surrounding areas?
Public transportation. Advantage: Portland. I like to bike, and we currently own one car and carpool to or jobs (wife drops me off and picks me up). Seattle is not as bike-friendly and has fewer options for public transportation. Correct?
Traffic. All things being relative, we’re moving from the D.C. metro area, so ANYTHING would be an improvement over the traffic nightmare in this area. But it sounds like Seattle has more road congestion in general, while Portland/Vancouver has bottlenecks around the river. Right?
Cost of living. Seattle is higher, yes? At least for housing. But again, I can’t imagine it would be as bad as out here in D.C., where a median-income family simply can’t afford to buy.
Amenities. Both of us like to be able to retreat to peace and quiet in the evening, but I’ve also gotten spoiled having just about any store nearby that I could want. I imagine Seattle has just about everything, but what about Portland? How does it compare in terms of retail and restaurant variety? (I shop more than my wife does, believe it or not.)
Job market. Advantage: Seattle? I’ve read quite a bit on here about Seattle having better wages and more jobs, and Portland having lower wages and fewer jobs. In general, is this true? To my wife, the job market is not a huge concern, since as an accountant, she can get a job just about anywhere. But as a copy editor, I’m more specialized, and I figure Seattle will have more opportunities for me.
Any insights will be most appreciated!
My two cents...
Politics-I think the two cities are pretty comparable...Portland has a little more of a radical image. The metro area itself is considered perhaps more liberal (certainly liberatarian) than Seattle, and some of the rural areas more conservative than in Washington state. Oregon tends to beat to its own drummer...it is against the law to pump your own gas in the state for example, but also the only state in the nation with a "right to die" assisted suicide law.
People-This is purely based on personal observation but I find Portlanders a little more...extroverted. I've been chatted up in public there in a way that rarely happens in Seattle.
Weather-Interchangeable. Portland is a little colder during the winter and (especially the past few years) definitely hotter during the summer. You could get by without an a/c in Seattle...Portland might be a little uncomfortable if you are in an upper level apt.
Nature-Seattle has some pretty glorious views (when it's clear) and with mountains in the background is arguably more picturesque. These mountains are aways away however and green space in the city is pretty limited. Portland has tons of green space, I believe more in city park space than any other U.S. city. It's right there all around you instead of a drive away.
Public transportation. Seattle has...buses. PDX has light rail and buses and they run almost twice as often during evening (after 7pm) and weekends as Seattle's.
Traffic-Portland is a bit better but both cities have growing pains in this regard.
Cost of living-It's all relative but unless you're moving from NYC/SF/LA Seattle will seem high. Portland is often cited as being the last remaining urban experience on the West coast that remains (somewhat) affordable. Salaries are higher overall in Seattle but if you work in the service sector or pretty much any job paying under $40K, Portland is substantially more affordable.
Amenities-Seattle is simply bigger and so there are more restaurants, more clubs, more venues, etc. There are bands that play in Seattle whenever they are on tour and simply skip Portland altogether.
Job market-Seattle has always had a more robust economy as far as I understand and for awhile a few years back Portland had the highest unemployment rate of any U.S city. Things are better in both cities now but Seattle still has more to offer in this regard. Again though, I will stress that if you are in a job that is paying under $40K or so, you will get more for your money in Portland.
That's the catch with bigger cities...NYC, SF, LA...they do pay better in those locations provided you are in certain industries and at a certain salary grade. If you are not...your quality of life will suffer.
Politics--I think that in general Portland may seem more liberal than Seattle but I don't think it's the case. I think people tend to focus on a few areas of Portland like Alberta or the Hawthorne and declare the entire city to be hippyish. You could say the same thing about Fremont (and others) in Seattle several years ago, but prices have pushed people out. Fremont is yuppy now. I think Portland, still being cheaper a bit than Seattle, does still have more of an affordable slacker/art scene with a lot of underemployed by choice types and scenesters. However, it's not like it's the entire city. You go neighborhood by neighborhood and can live in just about any area you prefer--that's what I like about Portland--lots of varied neighborhoods and you can find your niche if you so choose. Seattle and Portland both are growing and have grown a lot in the last 15 years or so. Seattle is a little ahead in sophistication but not at the levels people would like to have you believe.
It probably will boil down to what you can find job wise, and how reliant on public transport you want to be. Seattle wins with more jobs, Portland wins with public transport and bike access. The summers here are nicer than Seattle, though we occasionally get more snow. There really isn't a HUGE difference between the two cities except that traffic is worse in Seattle. I could be happy living in either one.
As for stores, I don't think Seattle has anything that Portland doesn't. Maybe a big department store or two but we have most of the same stores. I think Portland actually wins for food/restaurants at this point, at least for being a force to reckon with and getting the respect across the country as an innovative restaurant scene.
Seattle has some more downtown scenic stuff with the ferries, sound, etc. but Portland has more easily accessed beaches and mountains, lots of hiking, etc. Again, they're not that drastically off--both have beautiful things to see close by.
As for the freeze....I found people in Seattle to be really friendly, or at least about as friendly as Portlanders. Which means probably less friendly than the DC area but friendly enough.
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