Will Portland ever build more freeway lanes? (Gresham, Beaverton: fit in, credit)

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by phlinak

Regarding increasing the availability and utilization of public transportation and electric vehicles, I totally agree with you, in principle, but you are not in a position to determine who "needs" a car and who does not. That decision should rightly be left up to the individual.

That is why we have the present mess. Leave the decision up to the individual... that is working well... not. You live in a country governed by laws that take essential decision making out of your control all the time. You have no problem with the present situation because the decisions of the legislature jibe with your own. What will you do when that changes. Portland as the premier "Green" metro will likely be one of the first, if not the first, to enact some kind of non-essential vehicle ban in the city center. The only way to have personal access to the downtown will be in an alternative energy vehicle (and no, a Prius will not make the cut) or by mass transit... or by bicycle. In yours and my lifetimes. Widening of Portland's freeways? A'int gonna happen. New freeway corridors into the city center? . Vehicle bans and controlled access to congested urban areas? Count on it.

H

[urbanlife78]

Banning vehicles downtown or anywhere in Portland isn't going to happen, and it isn't a good idea.

[rzzz]

Outside of the freeways to the burbs, i never felt that Portland's traffic was all that bad.

I'd be surprised if the worst population and traffic predictions for the area ever come true. What is more likely to happen is people will stop migrating to Portland. Gen Y are already the least mobile generation ever, and the following generation will likely also stay put. Once it officially becomes as expensive as Los Angeles, potential PDX immigrants will stay in Los Angeles.

[colganc]

Let me know how commercial and industrial shipping works on MAX. Eventually these things will be competitive disadvantages. Same goes for COL. Portland will have to compete with high COL or the economy will stall out.

Housing is expensive, you will have to pay workers more. Payroll is too high and it will be much harder and riskier to start new businesses. Too expensive to ship or move goods, the business won't start or will get moved. Shipping risks due to at capacity freeways will cause business to move. There is a reason many large warehouses are over by the ports along the Willamette and Columbia. If there is no more room in those areas leaving only higher margin businesses in the area and the traffic chokes shipping to those locations for export from other parts of town, you will see a reduction in business investment and a lack of new business. Or actually you won't because it will be a hidden cost of the policies enacted and won't know what is being missed.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by colganc

Let me know how commercial and industrial shipping works on MAX. Eventually these things will be competitive disadvantages. Same goes for COL. Portland will have to compete with high COL or the economy will stall out.

Housing is expensive, you will have to pay workers more. Payroll is too high and it will be much harder and riskier to start new businesses. Too expensive to ship or move goods, the business won't start or will get moved. Shipping risks due to at capacity freeways will cause business to move. There is a reason many large warehouses are over by the ports along the Willamette and Columbia. If there is no more room in those areas leaving only higher margin businesses in the area and the traffic chokes shipping to those locations for export from other parts of town, you will see a reduction in business investment and a lack of new business. Or actually you won't because it will be a hidden cost of the policies enacted and won't know what is being missed.

How commercial and industrial shipping works on the MAX? I don't understand what you are asking here. The MAX is a passenger light rail system, not industrial rail.

[squidaline]

[quote=Leisesturm;35590462]You are likely correct. In any case the o.p. rant title is misleading. They weren't asking a question, just complaining bitterly about a status quo. Why? Pointless IMO.

H[/QUOTE

LOL Portland is AWESOME, don't you just love the people? Oh I do..soo very very very much.

[psichick]

First, yes, traffic got worse as soon as school let out. The fact that they changed the way the lights works adds to the mess. I don't get that and I'm not the only one that has noticed it. Left turn lights that would be blinking yellow, now only turns green or red. Traffic backs up, which in turn backs up the main road, etc, etc, etc.

Secondly, I personally am for the "fix what they have" instead of the expand the freeway. I'm from SoCal, trust me, adding lanes don't work. Actually, there was a study out there.....it proved that by the time the lanes were added, they were already 20 years behind population expansion, so no matter how many lanes they added, it wouldn't make things better.

Thirdly, maybe it is because I'm from SoCal, but this isn't traffic. And yes, I have sat in some ugly traffic lately and yet, only maybe a week's worth of days ever look/feel as bad as SoCal traffic. Granted, to Oregonians or anyone who's been here for 10+ years, yeah, traffic is worse, but then again, it's worse everywhere compared to 10 years ago. Portland isn't any different.

[Nell Plotts]

If there is freeway expansion it is likely to be I-205 because construction costs would be lower and it would pull by-pass traffic away from the city center.

At one time there was a discussion (maybe just gossip) that a freeway & interstate bridge would be constructed to connect Beaverton/Hillsboro area to Vancouver. It would go over/through the Tualatin ridge, have footings on the east end of Sauvie Island and the west end of N Portland about Kelly Point Park, then cross the Columbia. The problem with that plan is that all the soil along the river at that point is non-compacted siltation, the piers would need to go very deep. Then there is the expense of either going over or through The Tualatin ridge. Another not going to happen in my lifetime dream.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

How commercial and industrial shipping works on the MAX? I don't understand what you are asking here. The MAX is a passenger light rail system, not industrial rail.

If businesses cannot ship industrial or commercial goods on MAX and the region does not expand capacity on other transportation modes then Portland will quit growing. We will need something that can free up major capacity on freeways in order to continue to grow long term or a new method with similar or better costs for for point to point shipping.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Actually Portland and the Metro have planned for this growth, they have actually planned a city to hand much more growth than what is there currently.

Rents and gentrification was going to happen regardless.

Portland currently has about 1/4 commuting by alternative forms of transportation, and the metro I think is at 10% (though the metro part is a ballpark number.) People who will drive will always drive, it is important to provide alternatives for those that wish not to drive.

As for the parking issue, that was a loophole that has since been corrected.

If they planned so well and did the right things, why do we have the mess we have today?

The parking issue is not a "loophole", it's very real, and still continues.
They built all these apartment bunkers that have no parking facilities, and rapid transit stations with limited parking, and in some neighborhoods, there is just no place to park because people that live in the apartments and use MAX park their cars wherever they can.

Once quiet residential streets are now crowded parking lots.