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Too much silliness in this post to even be able to address it all.
YOU want to decide how folks in NYC should live. Who made you King?
Looking to the dieing EU for quality examples of how to structure city/society is not too smart.
Aggressive nanny state mentality in the EU has killed off initiative and now those people don't even want to have enough children to replace themselves. 50-70 yrs from now the EU will be a basket case of muslim dominated cities filled with violence and filth. I have to travel to EU (primarily Germany) several times/ yr and see it changing first hand.
Millions of deaths in cities like Portland?? Where does that come from?
The invention of the auto has INCREASED both wealth and quality of life for millions of people. We live in great times dominated by unbelievable advances in technology/knowledge and yet there always seems to be those among us want to go back to cave man days in the name of protecting "mother earth."
We have not "Nuked the environment." You loose all credibility with statements like that.
You are right on all counts- people that are so anti-car that they think all cars should be banned are amusing. There is no way even in Europe that this is going to happen. Contrary to popular belief, even in European cities- they do use mass transit more than we do here- BUT the majority of people still travel by car. They have maybe 25% of their commuters using transit instead of half of that or so that we see in places like Portland or Seattle. Most households even in Europe have cars, and they are not giving them up just as people here won't give them up.
With cars banned, how would someone who lives in the city get out to all the places we PNW residents love to go that are not services by mass transit? How would we take our kids to the coast, or go to Mount Saint Helens to go hiking or sight seeing, or out to random hiking trails in other parts of the Cascades? Would we want these people to have to park their cars in massive lots outside of city limits, then take mass transit from those lots to/from their house in the city- is that what people who advocate no cars in the city want? I suspect these people actually think that people never need to leave the city, so their entire life happily exists within the boundaries of where public transport goes. Sure maybe that's the case for some people, but not for the vast majority of us across the PNW.
If businesses cannot ship industrial or commercial goods on MAX and the region does not expand capacity on other transportation modes then Portland will quit growing. We will need something that can free up major capacity on freeways in order to continue to grow long term or a new method with similar or better costs for for point to point shipping.
Do you know what the MAX is? There is already industrial rail lines in Portland. The MAX is a pedestrian light rail system.
If they planned so well and did the right things, why do we have the mess we have today?
The parking issue is not a "loophole", it's very real, and still continues.
They built all these apartment bunkers that have no parking facilities, and rapid transit stations with limited parking, and in some neighborhoods, there is just no place to park because people that live in the apartments and use MAX park their cars wherever they can.
Once quiet residential streets are now crowded parking lots.
Because nothing in life is perfect. Even the best planned cities will have issues to tackle.
The loophole I was talking about was small apartment buildings not being required to have parking if they were on major transit lines. That rule has been changed to require a percentage of parking spots. Though the buildings that were already approved or already built don't have to comply with that change.
As for parking at MAX stations, they are mostly designed to feed the neighborhoods they connect to so that the people living near them don't need to drive. When it comes to outside of the city boundaries, park and rides are more important and should include more parking spaces. Sunset TC is a good example of one that needs to be expanded.
Well as cities grow and become more dense, once quiet neighborhoods are going to see more activity than before.
Portland has really changed since you were here last, just warning you.
You are getting to the point where you really need to see things as they are, first hand, before making suppository statements like those above.
I know what MAX and and the parking-less apartments were designed to do, however, it's not working out as well as they thought it would.
The loophole may be gone but the parking issues remain.
There are neighborhoods still fighting with the city about parking issues.
For example, people drive to MAX stations to use MAX, and when the parking lots are full, they park on residential streets.
There have been countless local stories about people that want to avoid airport long term parking fees, so they park on a residential street, ride MAX to the airport and go on a weekslong trip.
I'm sure that you will get a better and more realistic viewpoint on these issues once you finally get here and see how it really is, first person.
I still think they didn't plan accordingly and put the bulk of the financial resources into the wrong type of improvements.
You are right on all counts- people that are so anti-car that they think all cars should be banned are amusing. There is no way even in Europe that this is going to happen.
It will. Not because I say so but because EU leaders say so. The idea is theirs, not mine.
Contrary to popular belief, even in European cities- they do use mass transit more than we do here- BUT the majority of people still travel by car. They have maybe 25% of their commuters using transit instead of half of that or so that we see in places like Portland or Seattle. Most households even in Europe have cars, and they are not giving them up just as people here won't give them up.
BMW is in Germany, Volvo is in Sweden, Volkswagen, Fiat... ... uh... I think I know that Europeans know about and use cars. What percent of NY'ers commute by car? When the infrastructure can no longer sustain only 12% of commuters using mass transit or whatever there will be alternatives proposed. One of them will be to curtail vehicle use in the City Center. Some will want to build more roadway but even in this thread no one thinks this is very likely. So... how do you "fix" the problem without either limiting vehicle use or building more roadway? Honestly, how? People say what can't be allowed to happen but they don't want to say what should be done instead.
Would we want these people to have to park their cars in massive lots outside of city limits, then take mass transit from those lots to/from their house in the city- is that what people who advocate no cars in the city want?
Exactly this. What is so hard about this. No one is saying you have to take MAX to Gresham to pick up your car? No one is even proposing that cars be banned in Hillsboro, or Beaverton or even South East. But 5th Ave and Yamhill? 6th and Clay? I don't know... I don't drive tons... I'm not the one raging about the TRAFFIC! Truth to tell I don't personally think it is that bad but mine is not the majority opinion. But before a single new highway is built or existing ones widened there will be some form of curtailment of use of the busiest traffic corridors. For a variety of reasons. Don't shoot the messenger.
I suspect these people actually think that people never need to leave the city, so their entire life happily exists within the boundaries of where public transport goes. Sure maybe that's the case for some people, but not for the vast majority of us across the PNW.
I leave the city all the time. Give me some credit. Or not. But you are completely wrong in your statement. I didn't start this thread.
Portland has really changed since you were here last, just warning you.
You are getting to the point where you really need to see things as they are, first hand, before making suppository statements like those above.
I know what MAX and and the parking-less apartments were designed to do, however, it's not working out as well as they thought it would.
The loophole may be gone but the parking issues remain.
There are neighborhoods still fighting with the city about parking issues.
For example, people drive to MAX stations to use MAX, and when the parking lots are full, they park on residential streets.
There have been countless local stories about people that want to avoid airport long term parking fees, so they park on a residential street, ride MAX to the airport and go on a weekslong trip.
I'm sure that you will get a better and more realistic viewpoint on these issues once you finally get here and see how it really is, first person.
I still think they didn't plan accordingly and put the bulk of the financial resources into the wrong type of improvements.
It has changed that much in the last 11 months? I have only been away 2 years and have been back a few times so it isn't like I am out of the loop and haven't been back in 10 years.
The apartments that had no parking were using a loophole that allowed a building with under a number of units to not need parking. That law has been changed to prevent parking-less buildings, but that doesn't change the fact that those buildings have already been built. That is the reality of the loophole, parking will be an issue for Portland because Portland is getting more populated. Ask the Northwest District about what it is like becoming more populated and an attractive area people wish to go to.
Well the only thing that would curb people parking in the neighborhoods to use the MAX to go on week long trips is by requiring permit parking in areas near transit stations.
Which improvements do you think Portland shouldn't have invested in and what should they have invested in?
Do you know what the MAX is? There is already industrial rail lines in Portland. The MAX is a pedestrian light rail system.
Do you know how businesses can move goods when the traffic continues to get worse? Portland has been, historically, very strong on manufacturing types of businesses. Even in the high tech sector we are mostly on the manufacturing side. Businesses need to ship goods. Does that help clear up what I am saying about MAX? Same thing for any industrial rail.
Do you know how businesses can move goods when the traffic continues to get worse? Portland has been, historically, very strong on manufacturing types of businesses. Even in the high tech sector we are mostly on the manufacturing side. Businesses need to ship goods. Does that help clear up what I am saying about MAX? Same thing for any industrial rail.
No, I still have no idea why you think the MAX should be used for industrial use, it doesn't do anything that would benefit industry in Portland.
That being said, businesses would move goods the same way they do in any other city in this country.
No, I still have no idea why you think the MAX should be used for industrial use, it doesn't do anything that would benefit industry in Portland.
That being said, businesses would move goods the same way they do in any other city in this country.
Major manufacturing is not done where shipping goods is unreliable. If the congestion continues to get worse businesses like that won't locate here and won't start here. Most of Portland's business historically revolves around manufacturing. There hasn't been space for large scale manufacturing and growth since the 60s. That is part of why Tektronix went to Beaverton. Probably part of why Intel went to Hillsboro. Building MAX will not provide any direct capacity for point to point freight. The indirect capacity it brings seems to be laughable at best. Not building freeways in proportion to Portland's growth will really hurt economic prospects for manufacturing. If a few billion can be had for a MAX line it seems like there could be a few billion for a freeway like the west side bypass. At some point you could ship from Longview by water and Hillsboro's airport faster and cheaper than by trying to cross the through the west hills, take 205, or I5 with a truck to service those routes. Also at some point building farther and farther out will necessitate too many extra trucks to relay goods to bulk shipping locations. These things will hurt business.
I have huge doubts that Portland can transition from manufacturing heavy to majority services like Hong Kong or San Francisco for example. Both of which used to be major manufacturing hubs. It has been happening, but that might also be an artifact that it already is more expensive to ship and manufacture here than elsewhere, so we see less of those types of businesses.
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