Open-minded and progressive...? (Portland: law school, universities, live)

[Redrover]

aalverson - what I described in only one element of diversity. Obviously, there are many other elements of a more cultural nature that come into play. But with a widely diverse ethnic population these other elements have attached themselves to the people bringing them in. We also have a rather significant gay population here as well as untold numbers of churches including the largest one in the country, Lakewood Church. (if you Google Houston churches you will get a Yellow Page listing of more than 2500 different ones.) None of these things in and of themselves consitute diversity but taken as a whole... So you tell me, comparable to Portland?

[GB1]

Originally Posted by aalverson

MtnSurver-
No problem....I am not offended at all. I completely understand your point of view and I guess I just generally feel a bit defensive about Portland being referred to as not diverse, because in my eyes it IS very diverse. It is true that the population is mostly white, but that population is far from homogeneous. I think that's all I am trying to point out. It takes a while being immersed in any place, to understand it's true diversity and idiosyncrasies.

I agree with you that there's a lot more to "diversity" than a variety of skin tones....and there are many advantages to Portland, but I still don't think it's a diverse city in any significant way. Could you explain to me? I'd genuinely like to know.

[aalverson]

well, I'll refrain from googling Houston churches, but yes...actually, I would say it's not so incomparable to Portland. Honestly I am not being snide here. It's just that I LIVE here and I see it, hear it, breathe it every day. I have lived in homogeneous places and Portland is not one of them. Obviously I would not rate Portland as culturally diverse as New York or many other places in this country but I believe we can agree to disagree in that maybe your definition of diversity is different than my mine. Houston may have more diversity in certain areas, but I bet Portland has more diversity in other sectors. I do feel though, that the lens through which you are seeing and describing Portland is not the lens of someone who has lived here.

P.S., imagine it......there are in fact churches in Oregon. All kinds! Actually, I know a building owner in Portland who currently has two churches vying for the lease of his building - a Christian group from Ghana and a Muslim group from Somalia. Sounds whitebread to me. What do you think?

[aalverson]

Originally Posted by GB1

I agree with you that there's a lot more to "diversity" than a variety of skin tones....and there are many advantages to Portland, but I still don't think it's a diverse city in any significant way. Could you explain to me? I'd genuinely like to know.

I am simply saying that Portland is not strictly composed of middle-class white folks, nor is it strictly composed of tattooed alternative types. In my opinion, the array of neighborhoods in the city of Portland, and the distinct vibe each holds, as well as the variety of people who choose to inhabit them makes for a rather diverse city. There are people with varying income levels, professions, educations, lifestyles, hobbies, families, etc. all over this city. One must take a deeper look at the word diversity to understand my point of view. The typical surface definition of diversity doesn't cut it for me. I am sure not saying Portland is some cultural hotbed, but my definition of a diverse location is one that includes musical/theatrical performances of varying types, universities that offer an array of educational focus, private and public schools, variation in job/professional opportunities and so on.

Think of the Portland neighborhoods of Pearl District, Hawthorne, N. Portland, Irvington, NW, Dunthorpe, East County, blah blah blah.....They all have a different vibes and different types of people who choose to live in them. And it is not based solely on how much money one has. In my opinion, the fact that Portland is a city that welcomes those who are gay, straight, tattooed and pierced to the hilt, earth muffins, buttoned up professionals, etc. is a true testament to what I consider to be diversity, as well as the original title of this thread "open-minded and progressive."

The nature of human beings is that we will not agree on these things, and people have judgments about places and people....all based on the lens through which they see the world. That's what makes the world go round. You don't need to understand me, nor agree with me....but hopefully I have provided some insight as to my lens.

[bobmulk]

I think it would help to have some Republicans on the City Council. God knows it couldn't hurt. They're an embarassment now.

[Redrover]

aalverson, you make your point in a very clear and succinct manner and make a good defense of your point of view. I can't find fault with anything you say and applying those standards to my own city I find many areas of commonality. You are obviously Chamber of Commerce material my friend...

[MtnSurfer]

I also appreciate the explanation aalverson gave of his view of diversity with regards to Portland. I think it helps folks like myself who are considering moving there to get a better sense of what it is actually like.

To me it is not as important that we agree on the definition of term 'diversity' as much as it is that I understand the makeup of people who live in your city. In looking at Portland thru your lens I get a better sense of what that means to you.

Redrover, I also appreciate the original Q. as it makes for a very interesting discussion among people with different viewpoints and ideologies. I really don't like stereotypes and I think this thread helps to demonstrate that we can't just type cast people as red, blue, open or closed minded. Of course it is much easier to simply categorize people and be done. But we are missing something when this occurs. Do some of the stereotype have some truth in them, sometimes they do.

But as aalverson has pointed out there is more to Portland than white bread liberal clones walking around. These are people with distinct personalities, tastes, lifestyles and beliefs.

[aalverson]

Sincere thanks to MtnSurfer and Redrover for expressing some genuine understanding. I, too, hate the stereotypes; I believe it is a very narrow-minded and limiting way to experience the world. I believe it takes work to look beyond the surface and stereotypes, but it can be extremely rewarding to do so.

Oh, and MtnSurfer....I'm a she, not a he.

[Redrover]

I also think that in this situation there is truth to the old adage that, "Birds of a feather flock together." Although certainly there is some mixing and interaction of different groups, on the whole most of us tend to gravitate towards those most like ourselves. We are most comfortable in the company of others who "get" us without the need for either explanation or defense. But then again, sometimes it can be really fun to step out of our comfort zones for a visit to the "wild side."

[HiggsBoson]

I have to say coming back to this thread a few days later and finding a nice civil discussion going on is great to see! It could has easily gone the wrong way.

I think its rare to meet anyone who says they are "closed minded", we all like to view ourselves as being open minded, but I think its part of human nature to be drawn to what is similar and comfortable and be repelled from what is different. This obviously affects some people more than others.

As a Libertarian I am very much in tune to this because we usually have both the liberals and conservatives against us